Please read the recent posts on procedures. We are reaching the point where we simply cannot function unless people comply with our few simple rules.

I never thought I would write this, but I can forsee the possibility of our asking people to leave the gym, if they cannot abide by our procedures.

Hey everybody--here's the CrossFit/Brand X forum recommendation on ways to scale this workout (see below). Please be aware that these are suggestions of how to scale and that anyone who is not able to do this WOD as prescribed should familiarize herrself/himself with these options before coming to class.

Your instructor may have other ideas for scaling but it helps if you've familiarized yourself with these options and thought through your abilities on each movement before class so that you can be an active participant in smartly deciding how to tackle this (or any) workout.

Please note that in addition to scaling, there are times when modifications/substitutions will be necessary as well due to logistics at the Box. For instance, rowing instead of running if you don't feel like dealing with today's cold weather, and doing towel pullups or another sub in place of rope climbs.

Be open to your instructor's suggestions on this and please help the class run more smoothly by arriving having thought through these issues. You don't have to know exactly what you're going to do in advance but it helps to have thought through this stuff before stepping onto the mat for class. Thanks!

Big Dawgs:
as Rx’d

The Porch:
Complete four rounds for time:
Run 400 meters
10 Handstand Push-ups
15 ft Rope Climb, 2 ascents

Pack:
Complete four rounds for time:
Run 400 meters
8 Handstand Push-ups or 15 HSPU progressions
15 ft Rope Climb, 1 ascent or 3 Beginner Rope Climbs

Puppies:
Complete four rounds for time:
Run 200 meters
10 Handstand Push-up Progressions
2 Beginner Rope Climbs

HSPU progressions:
http://www.brandxmartialarts.com/videos/HandstandPushups.wmv

Tomorrow (Wednesday) Makeup WOD's

7:00 AM, 12:30, 6:00 PM: Sunday's 3-3-3-3-3 Dead Lifts
6:30: Monday's 1-1-1-1-1-1-1 Hang Power Cleans
7:30 Tuesday's 4 Rounds of Run, HSPU's, Rope Climbs

Tomorrow's choices reflect the fact that Sunday's have the lowest WOD attendance, and are therefore are the WOD's that the most members will need to make up.

Another excellent Morning Posse - and another excellent job organizgin it all so we could all do this WOD as close as possible to Rx'd. Thanks, Jacinto.

Now, this leads to a serious concern with the 2009 Black Box Challenge: Something must be decided regarding exercises that cannot be done, due to location or equipment shortfalls, at the BB as "Rx'd" by the Main Site. Case in point: 15 ft rope climbs. There is only one rope, no 15 ft. No matter how you slice it, this cannot be done under current conditions at the BB. So, this means NO ONE can obtain a perfect score in this challenge if they try and do all WODs at the BB. I am sure this will come up with other exercises in other WODs...

Let's not even mention the stairs on runs and the fact that we still do not have a reliable and agreed to measure of 400m for runs.

So, either it is agreed what a substitution is for an exercise that cannot be completed at BB and everyone uses this "as Rx'd", or the second portion of the challenge is dropped. Or, perhaps there is another alternative...?

This morning, for those who wanted to keep it as close as possible we substituted 9 strict rope pull-ups (which of course, likely took longer for some and removes the use of feet which would/ could happen in an actual rope climb...)

Based upon this, my time was:

19:57 as "Rx'd" as possible...

(3,?)

Hi Hari et al

I have already had a few inquiries as to what specifically you might be referring to with your first post as there are someconfused gym members out there. That is, one persons aid "did something happen last night?/. If tere are any specifics that have been rereaing their ugly heads it might be helpful tp review them specifically so that all members are aware of them because many seem to be a tad confused and we all want the box to run smoothly and not feel any hostility among members or from coaches or owners. Maybe a whiteboard up with the new rules might be helpful for what Court calls the transition period?

For example-if you are there to make up a wod after doing a wod- must you first get can u get the instructors permission or can you simply do so after the wod and pay after? Must you pay when you walk n and hope there will be room to get the workout in in between classes? what do you sign in for? How about how many people re actually allowed to make it into a class. Allison was very accomodting yesterday for the 6 pm class-but is there a real cutoff? things lke that. thx.

If I want to self train and make up the last 2 days of wods, DL and HPC, can I do that this evening? Say, at 6:30pm? I'm not aware of any subs for today's wod that require barbells.

Kirk- The short answer is that no one can do 100% of the WoDs as RX at either of the gyms. Not for lack of trying or lack of effort on the part of the BB itself, but we are just not equipped for it. Any running WoD at the manhattan box is not going to be RX. If you want to do this as close as possible to RX, do it in Brooklyn as the 400m is accurate and we have a rope all ready to be climbed. However, it is not a 15' rope so you should probably double the number of ascents to be close. This is still not RX.

Since Hari made the challenge, he can define the rules of it. But, as Hari mentioned in his original explanation, the important part of the challenge is consistency and the first number tells you much more about that than the second. I would wager that 99.9% of people who can do RX WoDs don't show up on a day they don't feel like coming and then decide to do a 'buttercup' level workout because they are lazy. Getting to the gym door is the (mentally) tough part, not picking up the weight once you are there.

In addition, a focus on performing the WoDs as RX can lead to other difficulties already addressed, such as exceeding the weight that allows sufficient intensity, greater potential for injury, improper form and letting the ego drive a decision that should be made based on a rational evaluation of your current physical condition. Not every person generally capable of doing Rx is in that shape when they arrive. Sickness, stress, poor eating/sleeping decisions, etc. can mean the smart choice is a sub.

But, I guess the real decision is up to Hari, since this is his baby.

Kurt - thanks for the reply. I agree with everything you say. Especially about the "first number" being key - as I've said in earlier posts, for me it's all about getting it done. To that end, I know I will not be able to complete the challenge as laid out due to my travel schedule. In fact, I am planning on adding a third number in my own record keeping for when I have to sub a WOD because I cannot do that day's WOD.

It is the second part of the challenge which my comment is directed at. I would like to do as many of the WODs as Rx'd as possible. It would be good if we can agree on what will be done when the limitation is not the individual, but the Box/ equipment.

As for people who "don't show up on a day they don't feel like coming"... I am so glad you put this down. These are the days we SHOULD come in. The day you look at the WOD and say: "Oh god I hate this Wod", or "I hate HSPUs" is the day you need to come in and GET IT DONE.

There are a few ways to deal with the "RX'd" issue, and I'll let you weigh in before I decide.

(1) We can accept the fact that perfection is not going to be possible, not necessarily for lack of effort by many of you, but because we are not 100% equiped.

(2) We can designate a Black Box RX'd substitution, but the truth is that it wont be RX'd, and people will be corect to point this out.

(3) There is something un-CrossFit about claiming that a sub is RX'd, even if it was the only possible choice. The CrossFit culture demands we tell the truth about our performance.

(4) We can acknowledge the above by changing our notation slightly from (WOD's done, WOD's done RX'd) to (WOD's done, WOD's done RX'd + WOD's done Black Box RX'd). So, for example, someone who is as perfect as possible, given our constraints would finish today (5, 4+1)

Michelle,

My comment is of a general nature and not related to any specific incident(s).

{However, I will confide to you (don't tell anyone I said this, or I'll deny it) that I harbor a secret fear that my head will explode, if I have to tell one more person to sign in.}

I don't know if it's too late to add my two cents on this, but I have an opinion on rests days and "self-training."

I think restricting WODs to specific "makeup" WODs is a really bad idea. The first reason is that it's far too limiting to those members that have restrictive work schedules. The second, and maybe more important, reason is that I think there are more important (and valuable) uses for rest day WODs than strictly run makeup WODs.

For example, having relatively poor form on olympic lifts, overhead squats, front squats, kettle bell swings, etc. I think I (and most all members really) would benefit from the previously held "Rest Day Seminars" much more than trying to makeup a missed WOD. If you miss a WOD you miss a WOD. The contest is great, and I love a good contest, but limiting members training experience and learning experience by focusing only on making up a WOD misses a lot of what I like about CrossFit.

As the gym grows and the classes become bigger and bigger, it is inevitable that really instructive training will suffer. While I think the members expect the trainer(s) running the WOD to coach\critique\help them during the WOD, no one can expect the trainer(s) to spend any great amount of time on fixing form, etc. However, CrossFit HQ gives us a whole day once every three days where the trainer(s) could spend the entire hour on skill work. Having been at the box consitantly now for a little over a month, I'd say that this is one thing that 99% of us need - in fact, I'd go as far as saying that skill\form\technique is holding back a large number of current members from really moving forward in their training. This is a direct result of moving through WODs to get them done as Rx'd, etc. and using rest days for fourth WOD days instead of focusing on the basics.

Finally, I don't mean to suggest using rest days as skill\form\technique\seminar days to the exclusion of those members who want to makeup a WOD of any kind. The key to making that work ($10 fee aside) is the trainer running the WOD block of time using his\her judgment when it comes to who and what gets to "self-train." For example, there is little risk or commitment of gym equipment involved in allowing someone to come in during a rest day seminar\class and do Angie. As long as the trainer running the WOD is consulted and permits the activity, I fail to see the issue with allowing this kind of "self-trianing." Likewise, if a member is injured and cannot do a WOD at all they, with the trainers consent, should be able to do rehab/stretching/pvc work, etc. The overarching principle here is the trainers consent - and the recognition that scheduled WODs and rest day work come first, period.

To sum it up, I think rest days should be run in this order of preference:

1. Rest Day Seminars (form\skill\technique\guest trainers)

2. Rest Day Unique WODs (vary by instructor\allow for makeups on a case-by-case basis)

3. Make Up WODs only (no restriction, instructor makes it work for the members in his\her class)

4. Make Up WODs, scheduled

Brett,

You can self train whenever the gym is open and there are not two classes going on. Currently, from 6:30 to 8:00 we have two classes going on. Soon, we will have two classes in session from 6:30 to 8:30 or 9:00.

(Also note that we have scheduled makeup's for the WOD's in the current cycle. See my comment above.)

I agree with Tripp.

Tripp,

Your comments are all well taken and reflect an important viewpoint, one that we had thought might prevail among the members. However, when we asked whether people wanted to try makeup days or continue with our traditional approach on Rest Days, the vast majority of responses supported makeup's. We are trying the current approach for the month of January, after which we will reevaluate.

I am a new member with limited experience at the Black Box, so I feel a little out of place making suggestions as to how rest days should be run. But, with that said, I agree with Tripp as well.

having missed some discussions over the holidays, chimin in to second tripp's comments. while i can see the value in hari's year-long challenge, i personally more highly value the learning and creativity that have often characterized the rest day WODs. additionally, if one is doing the year challenge, you still get a number without forcing the rest of us to participate in your scrambling for makeup wods every 4 days, just not the perfect one it's so easy to imagine you'll maintain so early in the year.

while i'm at it, thanks to Josh for his organized classes prior to the holidays. they were great. hope that becomes the norm. and thanks to Court for WODing us around the construction chaos at lunch today, looking forward to the end of that...

I would have to agree with Trip.

I mean Tripp

Is anyone going to be around at 5:30pm today?

Hari,

Thanks for your post. You note four points, however they all lead to the same conclusion: your point #4 "...changing our notation slightly from (WOD's done, WOD's done RX'd) to (WOD's done, WOD's done RX'd + WOD's done Black Box RX'd)".

While you have not really presented any other options, this one makes sense, is simple to implement and leads to the same conclusion of getting it done and trying to get it done as often as possible as Rx'd.

If all can agree and a decision can be made whenever a WOD comes up that is limited by resources/location/equipment as to what the official CFNYC sub is, then I think that is great. At the very least it standardizes things.

Kirk,

I hadn't seen an alternative argument before, but I do now. A home run hit in any MLB ball park counts as a home run, regardless of the park's dimensions. Each park has differently sized foul territories, etc.

In addition, various baseball parks have their own "grounds rules" (e.g., a ball hitting the dome is still in play, etc.) So, it can be argued that Black Box should define its own rules to cover those instances where it does not conform to the parameters of other affiliates.

I'm not sure I like this argument, but there it is. Debate away.

Tripp, et al.:

You make a great point, though one that has less to do with the Rest Day WODs in particular, and more with training at CFNYC in general.

Due to space and equipment constraints, over the past 18 months we've increasingly become a "WOD mill" - doing nothing more than wedging people through heats as fast as we could, just to get everyone in.

While there's frankly still real value in that approach, it also falls terribly short of the ideal on at least one major front: ongoing skill improvement.

Almost every other CF affiliate therefore structures their classes as:

1. Warm-Up
2. Skill Practice
3. WOD
4. Cool Down / Burn-Out

Part of the reason we're adding additional class times, sub-dividing into parallel classes each on their own side of the gym, etc., is to allow us to finally and religiously start following the same kind of structure ourselves.

Which is to say, we won't be drilling things like the o-lifts, gymnastic skills, etc., just on rest days - we'll be drilling them *every single day*.

Hope that helps.

Hari

i HATE having to sign in. it totally ruins the flow of my wod

The Ant,
When will the "WOD Mill" disappear and the Warm-Up/Skill Practice/WOD/Cool Down class structure be STRICTLY implemented?

> i HATE having to sign in. it totally ruins the flow of my wod

Plus, on a grip-centric WOD like this one, you're completely fatigued from holding the pen by the time you start the workout.

Of course, you'll have no excuse once we complete the switch to a swipe-in system, as the swiping counts as a mobility warm-up.

Hari,

I don't know baseball, but I like your analogy. More important it points out that this is YOUR challenge, or perhaps CFNYC's challenge and you can make the rules as you see fit. To accommodate for differences of equipment (ie no 15 ft ceilings...) there should be no reason why you cannot make up an official CFNYC sub to be used in the challenge. It's your challenge.

I have to say, I am a little weirded out by the increasing use of such terms as "STRICTLY" popping up around the place. Speaking of Crossfit ethos, it seems that the flexibility of Crossfit is part of its genius and the individual skills and styles of the various coaches is part of what makes us love to come in and do the WODs. I am a huge fan of the warm-up, skill practice, WOD, cool down/ burn out concept and believe it gives the coaches more chances to get creative with the work in addition to the Main Site WOD. I also understand the need for rules, regulations and guidelines, especially as member size increases.

However, I think we should be careful that we don't "rule" ourselves right out of enjoying what we do.

as for subs, there actually aren't that many that are needed. We only need a 400m mark, 800m mark (stairs not included, just like on 6th ave), a rope climb sub...I can't think of anything else that we can't do.

i have no sneakers at work. any subs i can do for the run befor ei come in for the 730? yes i am an ass.

they took down the ropes in our gym and its pouring rain so not doing this today.

3 rds
24kg KB swings x15
pullups x15
pushups x15
5:07

HPC 7x1: 185,205,225,235F,235F,235F,225

DL 5x3: 315,365,385,395,405x2

Fred-

The final holdup to completely and officially ending the 'WOD Mill' is equipment and space - in particular, the pullup bar, a few more pieces of smaller equipment that are currently being shipped, and piles of construction materials.

We should be 90% compliant starting this week, and 100% within two weeks.

19:22

sub 200 single jump rope and 10 rope pullups per round. all HSPUs done to 1 abmat.

great WOD. glad I convinced myself to come in today.

thanks to allison for the skill work beforehand. based on yesterday's WOD the good morning style dip is definitely something I need to work on.

(4,2)

m/29/5'8/156
As Rx'd
Complete four rounds for time:
Run 400 meters
15 Handstand Push-ups
15 ft Rope Climb, 2 ascents

25:19
It was a balmy 23 degrees fahrenheit at workout time. Fun.
Black Box (5,5)

I've talked with a few people about this, and know that many people's eyes lit up at the thought of some of this...

So here is the link the the Craisglist Long Islan post of some guy selling a ton of Strongman competition stuff, including
- Two Atlas Stones
- Two Strongman Logs (12 inch and 8 inch)
- Sled
- Farmers Walk

and more...

http://longisland.craigslist.org/spo/978743057.html

Enjoy..and if anyone wants to get in touch with this guy on potentially buying some, I might be interested in going in.

Modified as follows

4 rounds:
500m Row
15 HSPU w/ bands
15 Pullups

18:51

Yesterday:

HPC 1x7: 185, 185(f), 125, 135, 155, 175, 185 (4,4)

Today:

As Rx'd in 15:19 (5,5)

Still experiencing significant elbow\forearm pain, but it seems to be mitigated by a lot of slow warm up. Hopefully a good rest day or two in the next few days will help.

The Ant,

Is a 1 hour class enough time to do a

A Full warm up,
legit skill training,
and a wod?

22:07
subs: 10 pull ups for rope climbs - 2 sets of 10 with red band, 2 sets with green band
hand stand pushups off box with knees
+ stairs on runs
(5,2)

The top of my head wasn't bleeding before class....

Evening Classes

Sub 10 Rope Pulls per Round:

Evan 15:34 (4,3)
Levi 21:34

Joe (HSPU's to 2 inch plate) 14:40 (4,3)
Hari (HSPU's to 2.8 inch plates, row) 23:58 (5,3)
Josh (HSPU's to abmat) 28:18 (3,2)

Gabe (24 inch box, row) 17:48 (3,2)
Tony (24 inch box, 200 rope turns): 20:00 (2,1)
Maura (20 inch box, band pull-ups, row) 25:22
Arthur (20 inch box, band pull-ups, 200 turns)41:48 (5,2)

Post corrections to comments.

the run was about 430m
hspu were real crappy
subbed, 10 rope pullups

33:33

My 2c on as Rx'd: Why do crossfitters notate workouts "as Rx'd" despite pages of approved / official substitutes? I see two reasons: so they can compare their times against prior workouts and so others can compare times. The amount of thought given to the substitutes suggests that subs will give a very similar workout. As Rx'd isn't better, it's not harder, it's not more intense, it just "as Rx'd." If as Rx'd has somehow became the highest notation you can put next to a workout, that is wrong. Take this workout:

50 ring dips, 50 pull ups, 40 rd, 40 pu, 30 rd, 30 pu, 20 rd, 20 pu, 10 rd, 10 pu

If one person did the above and another subbed bar dips:

150 rd, 50pu, 120 rd, 40 pu, 90 rd, 30 rd, 60 rd, 20 pu, 30 rd, 10 pu

The workouts may be relatively similar but comparing times would be wrong. Just as it would be wrong to compare:

row 1000m, 25 burpees, row 750m, 50 burpees, row 500m, 75 burpees

and

100 sdhp, 25 burpees, 75 sdhp, 50 burpees, 50 sdhp, 75 burpees

If you do the workouts the right way, it's like the mile vs the 1600m - functionally identical but not truly comparable. It's not about freedom of thought or expression or intensity of effort, it's just a certification of comparability.

1/6/09 (5,3)

1/3 CFWU-10 (no PU)

Complete four rounds for time:
Run 400 meters SUBBED ROW 400M
15 Handstand Push-ups
15 ft Rope Climb, 2 ascents SUBBED TOWEL PU

TIME: 30:20

NOTES: Today was my fifth day in a row and I am pretty worn out. Used C2 instead of running b/c foot still injured. HSPU's were not full ROM (but keep getting better). PU's devolved pretty quickly. First rounds was towel / rope and the next three rounds were standard grip. All the PU's used bands. All in all a really dirty (not clean) time, but a great workout.

Made up the 5x3 deadlift WOD:
145, 165, 185, 195 (1 rep), 175

correction, my sub for rope climbing was not band pull ups but 10 jumping towel pull ups.

24:11, sub 4 brooklyn rope climbs per round, 1:1 negative HSPUs to one abmat. (5,3)