Sorry, I came late to yesterday's comments...but I wanted to add a few points on the issue of Who Survives and Who Doesn't - and more importantly some of the concepts that the book addresses that the article does not which are useful and relevant: both to survival and to what many of us are trying to accomplish by training in Crossfit.

First or all, the book is substantially better - and more well balanced - than the article. If I had read the article before the book, I may not have read the book at all.
Second, it is not at all the case that the book indicates that training and experience are bad things - what it does do is point out that assuming that because you have training and experience in one thing prepares you for another is a dangerous mistake. I think we can all agree with this. We've all seen it before - since I did heavy lifts at my old gym, I don't need any training in technique to do Crossfit, etc, etc. One of the most revealing stories in the book is about an army ranger, highly trained and fit, who went river rafting. during the trip, the water was rougher than usual and the ranger went overboard. He did not understand the conditions, or the gravity of the situation as the guide did and had no experience on that river, yet refused assistance from the guide claiming he could take care of himself - he drowned.

What makes people survive is what they do with what they have and understanding what they don't have. Knowing our limits and having a true understanding of our skills and attributes. Very few people are really good at this. This is something else very useful for us to keep in mind while training in anything - including Crossfit.

Another time that these things are key is in crisis situations. We are often surprised by the "tough guys" who "know everything" who panic in a real crisis while others, who never seemed "the type" have risen to the occasion and done amazing things. It is also a question of what you do when it counts.

I've read much of the literature in this area and have used it in my work. Below is a copy - slightly modified - of what I put together to give some of my people operating all over the world as an Aide-Memoire for survival in many different environments - some of this comes from the book Deep Survival. I thought people here may find it useful as well as it applies not only to survival and crisis, but also to training and life...

Survival Notes

Perceive, Believe, then Act
Avoiding accidents and dangerous situations is all about being smart.
Knowledge, information, skills and planning all help to predict situations and prepare for them.
Training is an attempt to make predictions and preparations more accurate in a given environment.
As the environment changes, you need the sense, or smarts, to see the situation and the versatility to adapt to it – this is what makes people survivors…or not.

Avoid Impulsive Behavior – Don’t hurry
Stop and analyze – understand where you are and where you need to go.
Think things through before taking action.

Know your Stuff
A deep knowledge of the world around you may save your life.
The more you know about where you are, what you are doing and the environment you are in, the better off you are.

Get the Information
The primary person responsible for your security and safety is you.
If you are new to a place, or situation, acknowledge that you don’t know – and take the time to find out.
Learn from available experience – speak to those who know.

Be Humble
Don’t think you know everything.
Experience is essential, but don’t think that because you are good at one thing, it makes you good at other things. Or if you understand the reality of one place that you understand another.
Over-confidence can lead to disaster – just when you think you understand something, the situation changes. Constantly analyze and re-analyze the situation.

When in Doubt, Bail Out
Understand the reality of the situation and understand your own skill level - know when things are beyond your control, or ability. When they are, find a safe haven immediately.

Stop – stop what you are doing, stay calm, and collect yourself.
Think – think about what you are doing and how you got here, think through your goals.
Observe – observe the current situation, the moment you are in and what is happening.
Plan – make a plan to address the crisis at hand and get back on mission if possible, or get to safety.

Take correct, decisive action – You’ve made a plan, now follow it.

3k Riverside in Park
12:12

Did FGB last night at RX weight and hit my target of 300....exactly. Would have shouted "This...is....SPARTA!!11!!" at the end, but I couldn't speak or, for that matter, stand up. The quote loses something when whispered from a fetal position on the floor.

Kirk- Sounds like the book is significantly more interesting than the article made it out to be, which isn't surprising.

The funny thing is that my own anecdotal evidence has lead me to believe that Crossfit people are generally not "tough guys" at least like those described above. Almost every Crossfit person I have ever met is humble in regard to their own ability, possibly because you are constantly exposed to people that can do some part (if not the whole) of the workout better than you.

I certainly agree that CF has made me ignore limits that make my friends and family a little worried, my recent triathlon debut being one of the most recent. Learning how to swim at more than just the safety level would have made that trial a lot easier and probably safer.

However, in order to strive, I believe that you sometimes have to ignore what are reasonable limits and keep pushing, while having a backup plan if everything goes wrong. Self-confidence, without hubris, even in things that you don't have experience in, seems like a key asset for not only survival, but also to seek improvement in a broad range of new aspects of your life.

From your post, it sounds like you have a lot more experience at this kind of thing than I do, so maybe I am talking out of my ass, but it seems that under-confidence can be just as damning as over-confidence in a survival situation.

"T-Nation on high-bar vs. low-bar squats"

i just read this link from yesterday & there is some great hip and joint mobility stuff in there on how to get deeper in your squats. somebody, ewen i think, asked this question last week.

Good post Kirk. I think it's also helpful to realize that humans have a built in tendency to overestimate their competence. It's called the Dunning-Kruger Effect.

In my opinion, it is most pernicious in individuals who are very high achievers in other domains, as your Army Ranger example shows. Another example is doctors/dentists who believe themselves to be world class investors (hey, i'm an effing doctor, i can do this!) and then lose their shirts.

If you are sitting there confident that you can handle something, there's a good chance it's the DK Effect, because the real experts, knowing all the risks, are probably scared. I think understanding this, over-riding your human nature, and proceeding with caution, is one key to good outcomes.

That being said, I think it is great to push yourself, try new things, and take risks... just while keeping in mind the above.

that high bar/low bar piece is really good-as is brian's I know there is a string on the cf site too-heated debate on high bar low bar.I hate doing low bar and personally i think its because I have a short torso compared to my legs which are longer --and the vertical stance is much easier. But if I am at crossfit I have to suck it up.:)

Juan can you email me or post to flickr the pix of my son u took a few weeks ago on the rings with his cf kids t shirt? thx!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gonzaleznj/sets/72157607042749302/

Actually Michelle, do both, as they are both beneficial... I was always one of the most vocal proponents of the low bar squat, but I have even started doing the high bar BS as well now. I do have to say, my back sure has been thanking me lately.

After an attempt at RX Linda weight this weekend on the bench press and deadlift (Rx clean weight would be dangerous at my skill level) I realized that some things just require more strength and everything requires more technique practice than I can practically gain if just following the main site programming. How often can I reasonably supplement the main site WoDs with lifting? Should I only do heavy deadlifts once per week? Less/More?

Since my form could use a lot more practice, would it be beneficial to include warm up and actual lifting on a different barbell exercise to my warm up or cool down each WoD day? Which timing will net the greater benefit?

Kurt,

With respect to your comment:

"some things just require more strength and everything requires more technique practice than I can practically gain if just following the main site programming"

The main-site WOD's will absolutely develop the strength and technique that you're referring too; HOWEVER, it seems to me you want to get there "quicker".

With regard to reasonably supplementing main site WOD's with lifting, there are several "Crossfit" gyms that I know of that do this (Catalyst Athletics, Crossfit Langley, and Gym Jones all regularly incorporate both heavy lifting and "burners" into their WOD's).

I'd say yes, only do heavy deadlifts once a week, but in my candid opinion, you can do some form of heavy lifting (be it 1, 3, or 5RM) more or less daily, assuming that the main-site WOD does not incorporate "heavy lifting" per say (obviously you're not going to supplement Linda with any other heavy lifting).

I'd give it a shot, and see where your results take you. You may find that you're "overdoing it" and your performance will go down, although I doubt that will be the case if you're relatively new to heavy lifting and Crossfit.

Back when I was following main-site WOD's on my own, I would frequently supplement them exactly as described; with some heavy lifting, usually after the WOD.

I'm sure the coaches at BB can offer some great advice as well :)

more about burgers
http://cityguides.msn.com/citylife/article.aspx?cp-documentid=9805654>1=24000
PJ Clarke's and White Manna are mentioned

Kurt,

A couple of ways to increase strength while still doing CF. You can do a hybrid known as the MEBB (Max Effort Black Box) which is basically a Met-con CF style WOD one day, and a ME lifting day they next. This basically looks like WOD-lift-WOD-Rest-Lift-WOD-Lift-Rest (etc...). Coach Mike Rutherford is the brains behind this method and more info can be found on his site and a few of the performance menu back issues as well.

However, doing a cycle of Starting Strength with adding some CF Wods 2 times a week is probably going to be more beneficial for pure strength gains. There are plenty of us who can help you with making corrections on your form if this is a route you want to go. The SS program (as well as the MEBB) are pretty CNS intensive so thats why its really hard to lift heavy while trying to follow the WOD as Rx'd on the mainsite. Recovery becomes an issue pretty quickly.

And yes, you should only do heavy deads once a week.... Also, doing lifting after a metcon isnt very beneficial because one you won't be doing weights heavy enough to matter, and two, being tired while trying to lift doesnt usually equate into better form.

Skipped my usual rest day run on account of the rain. Instead I substituted:
5 rounds
50 kb swings (16kg)
20 pushups
5 ab wheel rollouts (off of knees)
27:09 (still getting my wind back)

Thanks for the advice. Looks like pure supplementation isn't a good choice; rather, I need to choose one and pursue that. Maybe best left until after my last race, as my running/stair climbing is going to ramp up in the next couple weeks.

Assuming that I can't start with a real strength training program until October, what have you found to work the best in terms of teaching form? I would assume that having better form would increase my projected strength in terms of getting more weight off the ground, while being less taxing on the CNS as I am not actually lifting the 1 or 3RM weights. Is it feasible/useful to include form weight lifting at the end or is it still best left for the pre-WoD warmup? What would be a good percentage of max pull to use as form weight? I assume at some point, you are learning on too light a weight that it allows you to "cheat" in the movement (like snatching a PVC being a totally different expereience than even an unloaded bar).

On a related note, has anyone seen my copy of Starting Strength? It should have my name on one of the first few pages. I think I left it at B3 as part of the library and I haven't seen it recently.

jeff we should go hit White Manna Hackensack, N.J.

Hi, from Atlanta!

Just wanted to say "Thanks!" for letting me stop by the Black Box over Labor Day weekend for a WOD. It was great meeting everyone (Allison B, Hari, Juan, guy who graduated from Emory (Go, Eagles!) and now works for HSBC, and others whose names I've forgotten - sorry!). If any of you are ever in the area, stop by! http://btbfitness.com/.

-Jamie

p.s. Allison B, when you get a chance, could you email me (jamieykchan@gmail.com) those pics you took when I was in town? Thanks!

Finally gonna get onboard with the Zone.

How do you first calculate total number of blocks for the day? I'm thinking 4 block meals and 2 block snacks....I'm currently 165lbs and doing WOD's four days a week.

Thanks to anyone with feedback

http://www.drsears.com/ZoneResources/BodyFatCalculator/tabid/414/Default.aspx

Rob

thanks

What would be your recommendation for the daily activity?

.7 is the daily activity multiplyer for the CF WOD

With all due respect to Justin's comment on training heavy after a WOD:

Of course, going for a 1RM deadlift within minutes of completing a burner isn't very productive or safe.

I personally find that I'm "good to go" within 5-10min after finishing a WOD. This is a ***HIGHLY SUBJECTIVE*** opinion, but I do believe you can safely and effectively train heavy after a WOD.

There are arguments on both sides of the fence. If you train heavy before a WOD, you may have fatigued your muscles to a point where your WOD performance will suffer.

We have already discussed the negatives of training heavy after a WOD.

Like everything else in Crossfit, give it a try and see what works for you.

I just want to express my opinion, again with respect to Justin, that you *can* safely and productively "go heavy" after a WOD (or before) given the appropriate circumstances.

- Jordan

i have been trying to work some 5x5 deads into my weekly routine because i need the work and although i have gotten stronger from this (previous 1rm was 340 & i did 335 for three the other night during that 5x3). the only problem is, i find that the extra training catches up to me, especially when say something like linda comes up and i tried to do it only about 12 hours after i did heavy deads. my body pretty much collapsed...i bonked hard.

listen to your body and rest when you need it.

Yeah, its the cumulative effect of that much training that I worry about... Thats just asking the body to do alot of work. Not saying its impossible, but just really make sure you listen to your body and make sure you are eating and sleeping well.

Absolutely agreed!

Put the Black Box theory to the test: put something in, get something out, and decide whether or not it's working for you :)

more about Bacon Salt:
http://www.avclub.com/content/feature/taste_test_j_ds_bacon_salt

The real reason to go to Iowa -> http://blogofhilarity.com/09/2008/a-sundaewith-meat.php

On the topic of pacing your workouts
http://www.againfaster.com/articles/managing-your-way-to-mediocrity.html

wow justin i am shocked that you do the high bar back squat. for real. i used to try to sneak it in when no one was looking. when i work out with tyler i HAVE to do the low bar but for some reason i can squat more weight with the high bar placement. not sure why?

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