Allison I couldn't disagree with you more.

Your elements programs don't even begin to compare to a CF Level 1 Cert. They aren't even in the same ball park!

That post seemed so unbelievable biased and I really couldn't even believe what I was reading.

Learn the 9 movemets from Hari or someone like Nicole, Pat Sherwood or Barber, Jolie, Jon Gilson, Dave Castro ... hmmm.. I wonder where the higher quality is, the more "value" for your dollar.

I get that some people can't afford $1,000. But seriously, you can't compare your training to what CrossFit has to offer.

If you're thinking that bigger groups and a faster pace at a cert means you'll get less out of it, you're dead wrong. These are real professionals leading the groups. They're broken up into groups the size of your elements classes. The training is steam lined, organized, and direct. Attention is paid to detail. The instructors don't waste time with fluff. The movements are taught in the most efficient way.

Guess what - Give Adrian Bozman a group of 50! and he'd still offer better training.

And they even let the participants ask questions!

I've been to a lot of Level 1s and seen and heard what goes on in the Elements classes depending on the trainer (I'm not talking about all of the trainers at the Box for the record. People can get quality if they're lucky enough to land with the right instructor). I haven't participated in an Elements Program. But I've talked with people who have.

I've also seen the trainers leading the programs in action during group classes. Some of the stuff I've seen and heard has not only been flat out WRONG but Dangerous. If you want examples I've got tons. You're off the mark, Allison. Big time.

I can go on for hours about this one. Bottom line - your elements programs don't even come close to the quality of the training at a cert. Not even close.

It has it's place, but it's not better, at all.

For the people who say "I've been through the program and I got quality", you wouldn't know the difference. How would you know if you were getting proper instruction if you it's your into to CF?

As a CrossFit trainer I'm so concerned with quality of the training. That includes proper instruction, during elements and regular group classes. It includes coaching during wod classes rather than sitting on the telephone (attention to reps, helping people fine tune form safely). Not just setting up some barbells and saying 3, 2, 1, Go. Most importantly that includes not putting people in danger by having them lift things in ways they shouldn't.

Allison, I'm just curious what your motivations were for making that post. Do you really believe your Elements program has that much more to offer than CrossFit HQ?

You pretty much said - There's a Level 1 at CFSBK but you're better off doing our Elements Program...

Have you ever visited any other CrossFit gyms? Seen other programs? Other training?

When you talk about quality what are you using as a reference point? You're comparing your program to your program.

You've been to one level one cert. You're in a bubble.

Take it from me, a person who has trained in, worked in and visited more CrossFit gyms than you ever will, you don't know anything about quality.

AllisonNYC,
Jeez you are fired up today. I don't think Allison made a judgement on the relative quality of Elements vs. Level 1 Cert. Her post was meant for Black Box members many of whom regularly ask "do we need to do Cert course". And her point is, since most people only practice Crossfit on a recreational basis and don't plan on becoming an instructor, there's no need to attend and spend $1000 on Level 1 Cert.

I have participated in a CrossFit Level 1 Certification (CrossFit Charlotte) and I had a great time and got a lot out of the experience and even made a few friends and heard some interesting stories. I plan to participate in more CrossFit Certifications in the future and hope to get as much out of them as I can as I think they are very useful.

In my experience, it was clear to me that the Level 1 curriculum was geared towards the person who intended to be a trainer. This is backed up by CrossFit's description of the Certification on their website. Nearly every lesson was framed in the context of "here's what to watch when you have your clients do this." While certainly I performed many exercises, not much time was spent on others to the point where some were only discussed and not performed. Further, participants were encouraged to go full-out on WODs that were quite challenging. Some first timers were crushed early on and had to compromise form for finish. I believe - and this was agreed upon at the time by those of us who went - that our previous experience and training at CrossFitNYC really helped us get the most out of much of what was taught.

I have also directly participated in multiple Elements classes taught at CrossFitNYC as an assistant under more than one instructor. Starting from my first Elements experiences where I limited my role to just watching and listening while fulfilling my duties as "med ball wrangler" and "PVC passer." to today where I try to limit my critiques to that which could cause real safety problems, I have worked to absorb as much as I could so that I could perhaps become a better trainer myself one day. In Elements, I have seen a great deal more emphasis in the having the participant get the moves correct for the sake of the participant and not for their theoretical client. I also witnessed that nearly all of the CrossFit exercises were each covered in greater detail in Elements which offered great benefit for the "completely cold" participant who would like to come in for a WOD and have a pretty good idea what they need to do to safely get the most out of the workout. As a counter example, the time spent on muscle-ups at my Cert seemed wasted on the pullup-learning beginners in our group - just as it would for most Elements participants.

In conclusion, I think both programs offer a lot of benefit to the CrossFitter, but I believe that the Elements program is structured as a good "on-ramp" for the beginner who wants to begin doing CrossFit WOD workouts and needs to know what to do while the Certification offers much of the same, but seems structured less for the beginner and more for the prospective trainer. Given that a certification costs over 3x more than Elements, I would agree with Allison when she says that Elements is a better starting point for beginners.

Fred: read it again.

I'm concerned with an accurate picture being painted of CF Cert training vs. Black Box Elements.

All my points and criticisms still stand.

Her post wasn't for people who were already members wondering if a cert is right for them. Why would she post to members who have already been through the Elements program bout cert vs. elements?

The post was directed to people who are visiting the site who haven't been through the Elements program. Encouraging them to sign up for her program instead of the cert.

IF it was directed at current members (which it was not) why as a CF trainer would you ever discourage another CrossFitter from continuing their education if they have the means to do so?

Moon: I've been to several Level 1 Certifications.

Some people go to become trainers, other use it as an introduction to CrossFit. HQ does a great job of accommodating both skill levels, needs and interests.

There is sufficient time devoted to watching the movements being demonstrated properly where cues and proper technique are discussed for the trainer and for the novice.

There is equal time devoted to then practicing the movements with PVC. This is not for the potential trainer. This is specifically about learning how to do the movements properly with trained eyes watching.

Participants are encouraged to push hard in the workouts. This is a Lesson in INTENSITY. Crucial to understanding what CrossFit is about. Most people who train on their own never understood the concept of intensity until they had a crowd of people and an trainer on them pushing them to their breaking point.

"While certainly I performed many exercises, not much time was spent on others to the point where some were only discussed and not performed."

Example please?

Allison B. AND NYC, looks like I'l be swinging by either6pm or 7pm tomorrow night. Hope to see you there.

I just signed up for the SBK cert. It's about time after 2.5 years of this stuff.

very wise Brett, wait for the cert to come to you.
Don't forget the Romaleos.

Hey Brett, I'll be getting cert-ard-ed as well. Can't pass up the opportunity when it's so conveniently close!

"There is equal time devoted to then practicing the movements with PVC."

Agreed, but I would offer that that such instruction should be part of a progression towards the use of real weight. Working with PVC is important in learning form but I do not believe it is a complete substitute for performing an actual barbell exercise with weight. In this area, I believe that the Cert stopped short of complete instruction. And with good reason - they had a lot to teach (core exercises, undertake workouts, nutrition, how to compose workouts, addressing client needs, etc) to a high number of participants (I blame nobody for not wanting to set up 10 bars on squat stands/racks and sort who can do what) in not much time (between breaks, setup and a typical early sunday exit, the course hours are nearly the same.)

To be clear, I do not raise this as a fault of the Cert - I believe that seeing people do the motions and learning how to spot what they are doing wrong was a big part of what the Cert offered and taught me. My experiences in the year of CrossFit prior allowed me to be very receptive to any tweaks of form I had and left me better prepared to pick apart issues in others who were often new and clearly struggling. But I believe that this approach is overkill for the brand-new CrossFit member who is having a hard enough time moving and controlling their own bodies through the processes and is not ready to evaluate the form of others.

Remember, these beginners could be asked to do a deadlift, back squat, push-press, or a split-jerk with real weight or just real bars the day after either class is done. In such cases, I believe that Elements better prepares new people to perform these exercises under "real world" CrossFit conditions because that is exactly and entirely what the course is designed to do. Elements is certainly no substitute for a Level 1 Cert for the prospective trainer or for the intermediate-to-veteran CrossFitter seeking more knowledge, different eyes on their form, or wanting to ask questions based on their experiences, but for the beginner I believe it is extremely valuable.

A_NYC, I see the point you are trying to make, but the rapid zeolatry and character assassination that permeates your post really gets in the way of your argument. Although the subject post is probably geared more to potential members than people like me, I know that I have asked myself whether a weekend of training is worth nearly a year of gym membership and the week after week corrections, advice and support that I get here.

Not all of us can afford to attend numerous certs and visit dozens of affiliates across the country. I'm envious of your freedom to do so, but the fact remains that I have a limited amount of disposable income and the value of taking a level 1 cert is questionable compared to the opportunity cost I give up to do so. This is particularly true given the fact that almost everyone I have spoken with after they come back from a cert says that it was:

1. awesome
2. they met a lot of good people
3. The learned some tips and/or tricks, but over 90% of the instruction was a repeat of what we learn here or is directly taken from the CF journal.

The cost benefit analysis for dropping a grand on that may make sense if you want to be a trainer or you have a lot of extra money. I don't, so published evaluation of what are essentially competing products is both useful and understandable, given that this site exists because people take elements and help pay for it. CFNYC doesn't have to advertise South Brooklyn's certs, but I am glad that they broadly support both national and local training programs, so I get the option of choosing. I recognize your loyalty to HQ and other affiliates, but I don't think personal attacks help your cause.

"But I believe that this approach is overkill for the brand-new CrossFit member who is having a hard enough time moving and controlling their own bodies through the processes and is not ready to evaluate the form of others."

Some people are visual learners. Showing what a flaw looks like and then addressing it is extremely valuable to the inexperienced CrossFitter. Some people need to SEE what they're doing wrong.

Playing with PVC exclusively while learning the movements is not a problem. Your elements programs should be focusing on the movement with the PVC. Practice with the barbell is Excellent but not as necessary as drilling form. A press with a PVC should look exactly the same as a press with a 45# barbell. The weight is not what's important while learning.

Recently I witnessed a disaster during the Deadlift wod at the Box. A girl obviously had NO idea what she was doing. Her form was an absolute nightmare to watch. She knew it, I knew it, the instructor knew it but didn't know what to do with it. Instead of sending her as far away from the barbell as he could have and PVCing her up, which is what he should have done, he put more weight on her bar.
What did SHE learn in Elements? Why was the bar 3 inches from her legs, back rounded struggling to pull 135#? Why was she being cued to "look up"?
Did the Elements program prepare her for a weighted Deadlift? Not from what I saw.

Why was I the one to tell her NEVER to do that again. That if she didn't want to injure herself she'd stay away from that bar and I worked her form with a PVC and then a 25# barbell. When I turned around she was being instructed to do a "10 count slow deadlift" with a severely rounded back and all the same issues still present with #135 again!?

That girl had no business with weight. So Moon, you see weight vs. PVC is not a Elements vs. Cert issue. It's a matter of personal readiness. That should be the job of the coach to decide for the individual.

Not every person who's ready for weight can be accommodated at the cert.

Obviously every person who's NOT ready for weight can't be accommodated at the Box.

Guess where I'd rather be? At the cert with a PVC and a safe back.

The only way to eliminate having to deal with other peoples skill levels is to do Private Training.

Being someone who has gone through Elements and through a Level 1 cert, I can’t even begin to compare the individual attention received in Elements vs. at a Cert. It isn’t even close; Elements is vastly superior. While both are great, I would much rather have a certified trainer work with me over a period of time in a relatively small group. At the Level 1 cert, I was being watched over less than two days by a trainer in a group of over 20 people at almost all times. In elements that number was much less.

Also, I had already learned approximately 90% of the concepts discussed at the Cert through working out and learning from the trainers at CrossfitNYC. As Moon alludes to above, this gave me ample opportunity to hone all my skills, not be overwhelmed (as many people were at my cert) and to get the most out of the amazing trainers at the Cert. I came back and specifically commended my coaches as preparing me quite suitably.

I would absolutely urge a beginner to go through Elements first and steer clear from Certs until you have done A LOT of homework. Elements is one form of that homework, and Crossfit NYC is top notch.

Brett and Good Sam
I suggest you guys carpool and split a hotel room. With the money you'll save, the cert will practically pay for itself!

Kurt: Nothing gets in the way of the facts.

You Wish I was making personal attacks. That would make it easier for someone like you to dismiss the valid points I'm raising.

The reality is I'm not concerned with the personal. I'm concerned with the training. With what's being brought to people who are paying their money and entrusting their safety to the trainers. Period.

What I am attacking is the quality of the training and the nerve to compare it HQ training.
Like you and I have both said, I've been to MANY gyms and had to opportunity to be involved with lots of programs. So I've seen what quality elements programs can produce and I know the value of them. I'm not for a second suggesting that going though an elements program is a waste of time or money. A quality program is worth every penny. So is the Cert if you can afford it.

When I went to my first level 1 I felt like some of the people you talked with who said they learned a lot of what was taught at the cert from their training at their affliate.
But I was learning the basics back when there weren't elements programs and When it was Mike, Keith and Josh paying insane attention to coaching. They're top notch. They made me feel safe. I WAS safe.

Now a Level 1 trainer with little to no experience coaching is leading the Elements program? See the difference?

One more thing about my post about the DL girl. That disaster was not a reflection on the coach of the elements class. It was a reflection of the inability of the trainer of the DL class to assess and accommodate her specific needs. She just wasn't ready. Not everyone popping out of an elements or cert is.

Good luck Elise! Just remember to make some funny faces when lifting tonight
http://www.daylife.com/photo/09HE6OE6v2chO

I think we have a bit of an apples and oranges issue here, but I'll put a few of my own thoughts out there. (Disclaimer: I haven't attended a CF level I cert myself, mainly for the reasons explained below.)

First of all, the relative value of the level 1 Cert has been discussed many, many times on the HQ boards, and the general consensus (does agreeing to disagreeing constitute a consensus?) was that it's not for everyone. The latest thread can be found here: http://www.board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=36068

If you plan on creating an affiliate or coaching at a CF gym, a level I certification is a basic requirement. Too basic, in my opinion. You have to remember that it's more of an introductory seminar/fantasy camp/pep rally than a certification, since you don't actuallly get tested on anything. I suppose CF will keep tweaking its affiliation and certification process, but the current setup simply cannot ensure quality throughout the affiliate network. I also think there should be a way to skip the level I and attend a level II, but that's a different issue.

Having said that, if you're new to CF or can't make it to an affiliate and usually train on your own, maybe going to a cert will be good for you. Depending on your personality and needs, however, a few 1 on 1 sessions could be more useful (and considerably cheaper). This is where the Elements program can be a good compromise.

For more experienced crossfitters and athletes, I would definitely recommend attending specialized seminars (barbell, olympic lifting) provided by CF or other entities rather than a level I.

So to sum up, it really depends on your individual needs. There are many factors that can come into play when deciding to attend either a local cert or an Elements-type program.

Of course, if like the lovely AllisonNYC you believe the training provided at CFNYC generally sucks, that decision will be much easier.

Allison,
I really appreciated your help with deadlifts. It was incredibly informative, supportive, and generous - and you are definitely a natural teacher.
But my bad form and rounded back really didn't have anything to do with the instruction I got in elements (and from Hari during the WOD). I'm slow to pick up form - done a bunch of different sports throughout my life (unfortunately none of which lifted heavy or did deadlifts), had continually great coaches, and just always taken a while to figure things out. Plus I'm kind of forgetful.
So...I don't really feel that my rounded back/disaster belongs in this particular argument. Or...you know... on an internet messageboard.

Best,
Jessica

Steer clear of certs? You wouldn't even have an affiliate to train at if it wasn't for those certs and the people who have attended them running your classes.

Training at the Box is superior to the training of the HQ staff? Hardly.

20 people in a group? Impossible. Your counting skills were off that weekend, Buddy.

How many people have YOU talked to attendees about their experiences at certs? Your inner circle of pre-existing black box friends?

I can guarantee I've talked to hundreds more people than you ever will about the certs. They've painted a very different picture. Your handful of people to my hundreds. You lose

A2,

Let me summarize your illustration:

An Elements graduate was doing deadlifts with poor form. The instructor was working with them and not having much success. You - who has attended numerous Certifications across the country - pulled the person aside and worked with them one-on-one, patiently, and privately using PVC to get the form right. Then you continued to work with that person with a low weight bar to get their form right. As soon as the person got back on the main bar they demonstrated poor form again.

Just to confirm - is this being offered as your best example of showing a fault of Elements or are you saying that a Level 1 Cert would have fixed her form where both you and a Certified instructor failed to do so under direct, personal and private instruction? Personally - and I am not familiar with the instance or person you are referencing - I see a particularly challenging client for whom there would likely be no "quick fixes" to getting that deadlift right no matter which course (or both) was taken by the client. The solution for this person is clearly time and practice.

Jessica,

"So...I don't really feel that my rounded back/disaster belongs in this particular argument. Or...you know... on an internet messageboard."

Of course it does. Regardless of the reasons for your rounded back and bar drifting from your body you shouldn't have been instructed to lift that weight... or anywhere near it for that matter.

I used you as an example (name left out for your privacy and mainly because it really doesn't matter who it was as much as it matters that it happened) because not everyone is ready for weight after an elements program OR a cert. It was in response to Moons comment about everyone needing to practice with weight in an elements program. You finished it and still weren't ready for weight.. Again, not your fault or the fault of the instructor of the Elements class you were in.

AllisonNYC, your reading comprehension is poor. Unfortunately, I do not have the time to continually checking this board and posting to it (you know you have spent the last 3 hours on this rant!), so let's just say you win.

CrossfitNYC staff and owners –

I don’t know any other business that allows / tolerates their company owned space to be used as a personal pulpit to air grievances. I commend you for your patience in this manner, but I really hope that you begin to re-think your open attitude to all comments. It clogs up the message board and is quite frankly, tiring.

Come back often and soon, Elise!

From Wikipedia

"An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.[2]"

Do not feed the trolls
http://enigma.dune.net/~eric/Do-not-feed-the-troll.PNG

Moon, Your illustration is a little off -

An elements grad was instructed to DL heavy weight when she shouldn't have been using any. Her form wasn't poor, it was horrendous.. dangerous.

The instructor wasn't having "little success" he was telling her things that were flat out wrong and putting her in jeopardy.

It's not the responsibility of the trainee to know what's right or wrong. Jessica, forgetful, hard to teach? Doesn't matter. It's the responsibility of the trainer to protect and guide safely.

When I instructed Jessica with PVC it it looked a little better. Then she got back on the 135# bar after Hari told her to and it went to hell... again...VERY dangerous territory

"Remember, these beginners could be asked to do a deadlift, back squat, push-press, or a split-jerk with real weight or just real bars the day after either class is done. In such cases, I believe that Elements better prepares new people to perform these exercises under "real world" CrossFit conditions because that is exactly and entirely what the course is designed to do. " - Moon

My comment about the Dl was in response to this that you posted. Working with weight doesn't guarantee better training. Working with the appropriate weight or none at all does. Cert OR Elements it's not about the weight ... it's about the form and safety. Weight doesn't belong in everyones learning process. So nothing is being missed when working with PVC only at certs.

If she was my client or the client of Mike who was her elements instructor I guarantee she wouldn't have gone over 65# until her issues were resolved.

The point - elements and certs don't prepare you or qualify anyone to be ready to be pulling weight.

OT, I see your point, but when you ask for comments (in the comment section no less! (-: ), you can't expect everyone to agree and sing your praises. Deleting comments is a slippery slope, and you don't want to create a barrier for new members trying to post their WOD times. I don't think an ideal system exists.

And now for something completely different!!

FS: 10x115, 10x155, 10x175, 10x200.
Last rep of last set may have been borderline in terms of depth.

OT, Anon, whoever else doesn't care for what I'm saying:

I don't care

It's not about you or me. It's about training. It's about quality and misrepresentation. You don't get it.

Me a troll? Because I'm offering an opinion shared by many that you happen to disagree with?

Not even close.

I'm the only one bold enough to say it because I don't care if people like you like me or not.

What do you suggest they do? Block my posts because they shine a light on what you'd rather be kept hidden in the dark?

News Flash I'm not the only one who feels this way. If these issues didn't exist I wouldn't be "complaining". You can't pick and choose ONE SIDE to be represented. That wouldn't be fair to anyone.

And as for clogging up the boards - only a handful of people who workout there actually post their times anyway.

A2 - "Weight doesn't belong in everyones learning process. So nothing is being missed when working with PVC only at certs."

You may want to rewrite that because it sounds like you're saying that because weight is not for everyone, it is something that everyone can/should skip. Which prepares "the rest" naught for WODs.

"I guarantee she wouldn't have gone over 65# until her issues were resolved. The point - elements and certs don't prepare you or qualify anyone to be ready to be pulling weight. "

We don't have any PVC pipes that weigh 65#.

So....yeah, I'm going to go along with the others and just leave this. I no longer believe you are interested in arguing the merits of Elements vs a Level 1 Cert for a beginner and that is really my only interest here. Uninformed rants against the coursework and the trainers at CrossFitNYC, claims that individual recollections of their Cert experiences are "impossible", questioning the motivations of well-meaning people, and much much more - these are all, at best, matters of opinion. And opinions are like a**holes: pretty much everyone has got one (but that doesn't mean they have to be one.)

i would like to open by stating clearly that i am a big fan of crossfit. crossfit has changed my world of fitness greatly over the past year and i am forever grateful to the culture i have embraced for making me see a new side of it. that being said...

a2:

you have some f****** balls. your take on what was written was invented in that crazy little brain of yours based, not on what is actually there, but on a biased you have against CFNYC and its trainers. if i didn't know better, i would think that you are just looking for a cat fight, AGAIN! i know that i shouldn't take the bait, but i will.

allison is absolutely correct is stating that someone who has no experience as an athlete or a fitness professional should think twice before spending $1000 on a CF certification and maybe learn a bit about exercise from certified trainers first. believe it or not, a2, not everybody needs to get certified by HQ in order to love CF.

i have never been to a certification and i am sure that the instruction i would get there would be beneficial for myself and my clients, but being that i decided a year ago that i didn't want to be a trainer anymore and stopped training clients altogether, it would frankly be a waste of money. i think you and i are in the same boat here the difference being that you don't pay for any of your certifications, not with money anyway.

i'm sure you're thinking to yourself right now, "marisela's just mad because i have gotten more results and i can do a muscle up and she can't." get over yourself. i stopped thinking that way when i was about your age and i realized that i didn't matter what other people were doing, only what i was doing. THIS is what crossfit means. not everybody is going to be able to do a muscle up in their lifetime, nor does everyone want to. yes, a2, even people that are involved in crossfit have different goals than you do.

and, furthermore, you want to tell someone else that they are living in a bubble!!?? i know that you have been to four hundred certs, but has it ever occurred to you to take a walk outside of your crossfit bubble? or, better yet, rack up a few years of experience running a business training clients of your own. going to certifications of any kind no matter how many, does not make someone a good trainer. while anyone can benefit from a CF cert, for some starting small might be the way to go.

it might sound cliche, but quantity does not mean quality.

maybe if allison had made a seedy video in some no-name hotel talking about how embarrassed she was about the size of her breasts while standing in her BRA, you would have understood her point more clearly. you have made it obvious to the entire community and (congratulations) the whole world, that flicking your thong at a guy while giggling and proclaiming "sex sells!" is what fitness means to you.

i have had many great learning experiences at the black box and if you want examples, i have TONS. you, my dear, are the one that doesn't understand quality. maybe you would if you ever shut your mouth long enough to actually listen to what somebody else has to say something. (start with your elders who have more experience actually training clients) if you loved CF as much as you think you do, you would NEVER attack an affiliate online. you are just as immature and unprofessional as you have always been.

BC

Allison, I have to say that your grand standing knows no bounds. Your immature vision of thiking the world hangs on your every whim and opinion is getting more than old and your 15 minutes of fame have long been extingushed. Time to move on.

It is obvious you really do not have your heart in the right place where CF is concerned. You boast and brag about all your accomplishments and CF feats and most of them are lies. I have reports from NY that a 95 pound thruster gives you trouble and yet you speak of doing OHS at 180, your laughable. And now you bring up this elements comparison and tear down the CF level one cert. What a joke. You certainly are not representing NY or The Black Box well by any standard.

You are no expert, you have no real life experience, nor do you have ANY real coaching expereience to speak of worht substance. You got some free certs and have barged your way into far too many events and then do nothing but distract and piss people off.

This latest rant of yours is over the top and is based on nothing other than your whimsy and fantasy for comparison and is mere apples and oranges. Some one needs to tell you to go away and shut up. Oh - that was done when you were kicked out of AZ and Cali, but still you continue this crap. Does it not matter to you that you are nothing but a joke when spoken of in CF circles. Reading most of your crap on the internet that you spew like so much wisdom it appears you have no understanding of the real world - and those that are tired of hearing you utter any words where CF is concerned.

I feel sorry for those in NY who have to put up with your crap.

AllisonNYC

Why aren't you taking your awesome training skills to Crossfit South Brooklyn? Crossfit San Diego? Or one of the many other Crossfit affiliates where you are held in high regard? Your time and efforts could be better spent doing some positive training instead of criticizing other affiliates and trainers.

Aren't you supposed to be the star of these Level 1 certs? I mean I thought you were going to be the one that gives the lectures on the zone diet and demos all the squats. What happened to that?

ANYC said: "Kurt: Nothing gets in the way of the facts.
You Wish I was making personal attacks. That would make it easier for someone like you to dismiss the valid points I'm raising."

I will let your own words speak for you:

"For the people who say 'I've been through the program and I got quality,' you wouldn't know the difference."

"You've been to one level one cert. You're in a bubble. Take it from me, a person who has trained in, worked in and visited more CrossFit gyms than you ever will, you don't know anything about quality."

"20 people in a group? Impossible. Your counting skills were off that weekend, Buddy."

This is just from today's postings. Then you go on to agree with the common consensus of posters and the anecdotal evidence I provided that:

"When I went to my first level 1 I felt like some of the people you talked with who said they learned a lot of what was taught at the cert from their training at their affliate."

Now you claim that this has changed, despite evidence to the contrary. You provide an example of an individual's difficulty with form and that individual interjects with a refutation of your understanding the events. Whenever someone questions your understanding of crossfit, you shrug off their disagreement by reference to your allegedly greater experience and require us to take your word on blind faith.

I am curious as to why you seem so personally incensed by all of this. As far as I know, you don't hold a stake in CFNYC, or any other affiliate. You question the decisions and practices of this gym, which is a valuable function for an organization, but it makes me wonder why you still take the role of critic. In the end, if people agree with you, they will leave. If there really is a problem, then open a competing gym in NYC and show them how it is done.

RE: blocking/deleting posts- Please don't do this. The fact that everyone can post on here and say whatever they want, subject only to social convention and peer pressure, is one of the things I truly like about the blog. Please don't change it.

Keep burning those bridges, A2.

Crossfit South Brooklyn. Check. CrossfitNYC. Check.

Looks like there are 13 or 14 more affiliates in NY that you can burn your way through before moving.

if you post anonymously then you are a pussy, period. I don't care about your Fran time, anonymous, you are a pussy.

"Anon",
There are many other words that could be used to describe some of these posts, and we've experienced trolling on this site before, but I don't see a troll in this particular discussion.

Dear new/recent members,

PLEASE post your times/weights as often as possible. Ignore the background noise. Flood the boards with simple, factual accounts of your daily results. Us old timers don't do it nearly enough.

Anyway. When Moon bails out, all is lost. I suggest the rest of you follow his example.

AllisonNYC

Why don't you tell us the truth about San Diego and Arizona? Weren't you going there to be the next Nicole/Annie/Eva/Jolie? Maybe your great abilities don't shine in person like they do on your self-congratulatory webposts. Maybe you are all hype and no substance. Maybe after spending some time with you, the Glassmans, the Lugos, the West Coast in general found you as petty and childish as the entire New York community does.

What happened to competing in the Crossfit Games? Wasn't that where you were going to show the world how badass you are?

Maybe you came back so you could be the head trainer at South Brooklyn? What happened there?

Why is it that you are such a great trainer but the only one that will train with you is your mom?

Why is that everyone else in the world is always wrong but you?

"In psychology, egocentrism is defined as a) the incomplete differentiation of the self and the world, including other people and b) the tendency to perceive, understand and interpret the world in terms of the self. The term derives from the Greek egô, meaning "I". An egocentric person has no theory of mind, cannot "put himself in other people's shoes," and believes everyone sees what s/he sees (or that what s/he sees, in some way, exceeds what others see.)

It appears that this is shown mostly in younger children. They are unable to separate their own beliefs, thoughts and ideas from others. For example, if a child sees that there is candy in a box, he assumes that someone else walking into the room also knows that there is candy in that box. He reasons that "since I know it, you should too". As stated previously this may be rooted in the limitations in the child's theory of mind skills. However, it does not mean that children are unable to put their selves in someone else's shoes. As far as feelings are concerned, it is shown that children exhibit empathy early on and are able to cooperate with others and be aware of their needs and wants."

Frog: Who are you and what are you talking about?

I'm not tearing down a CF cert. Please point out where I did what you said. That's never happened and never will. I'm doing the opposite. Everyone who does CrossFit would benefit from going to one.

Elements at CFNYC is not a substitution. Like everyone has said it's like comparing apples and oranges. I've seen fantastic elements programs. Been a part of them even.

The stuff you're talking about my training is way off the mark. 95# thrusters? 180# OHS. Done and Done. Hard? Yes, of course. Thats the point isn't it? I never Lie about my training. No need to. I'd be proud of whatever I was doing - I was proud when I had 3 pull-ups and I was proud when I was a 45# OHS.

You have no clue about what you're talking about with Cali or AZ either. Not even a little bit. I didn't even know it was possible to be kicked out of a state. You need to fire whatever reporter you've got following me around. Your sources are incorrect. Couldn't have been more opposite of what you said. ha.

Does it matter to me that when you talk about me in your affiliate that you're not saying how wonderful you think I am? Not in the least... Keep talking ;)

I love CrossFit. Respect it. Encourage responsible training. I frown when I see anything less... and when it's bad enough, I open my mouth and talk about it.

Yawn.

Same old tired story! You will never change.

40#!

Anon: Have we met in person? If not I think we should.

The things I've talked about on this thread are things I've seen and got to know first hand.

Assumptions and being made about my history and personal interactions. I can assure all of you that you don't know what you're talking about. It doesn't bother me. It's like cheap entertainment - like reading untrue gossip about myself in one of those sleazy mags on line at the grocery store.

In the end it's irrelevant. It has nothing to do with the TRAINING. Training is what I'm concerned with. If it wasn't I wouldn't have posted any criticism or my opinions based on what I've seen.

If I wasn't about THE TRAINING, I'd probably be making posts asking questions about the last place you lived or who you last dated.

Truth about San Diego? Sure - The Lugos offered to give me a car to use while I was in SD. We drove to AZ to pick it up and I stayed. Lived with them by their invitation. Played with the Glassmans who lived down the block everyday. Love them and they love me. Call 'em and ask.

Didn't compete in the Games because Greg told me to have fun this year and go hard the next. I did and I will.

I went out to SD because I wanted to expand my horizons. Because I wanted to train with a new group of people. I wanted to learn from more trainers. I soaked up so much from Mike, and Keith and Josh that I wanted to see what else I could learn. What else is out there. Going there to "become Nicole or Eva"? Yeah I wish. Something tells me if that was possible California would be overflowing with CF women who wanted the same.

Why is it that I can't post anything besides "the Black Box is the greatest Gym in the country" without starting a riot?

you know why the people who share my thoughts about this don't voice their opinions? Because they see me open my mouth and then the Piranhas come out of the woodwork TRYING to tear me to shreds.

I wouldn't hurt to be able to be able to discuss constructive criticism. Rather than defend every wrong move. oh well..

was so excited to be comment #40 I forgot to comment,
Ewen on your last set, was that unbroken or just long rests at the top after each rep, I had a hard time doing 185# (hadn't done heavy front squats in forever) for courts wod. Im shooting for 200# but I dunno if ill be able to do all 10, without that nice lil break at the top.

holy hell.

greetings from San Diego.

Juan,

At that weight, I really had to stop a second and take a deep breath before going back down again. It was hard, for sure.

I don't know if you're familiar with the 20-rep back squat program, but I would say I was resting/breathing less than one would at the end of one of those sets, and slightly more than during your standard up-down with lighter weights.

In my case, form (keeping those elbows up and a straight back when fatigued) was the limiting factor before leg strength/endurance.

AllisonNYC, for the sake of your ongoing physical well-being (since you seem to be relatively adept at making people quite violently annoyed,) may I point you to a few excellent resources on providing constructive criticism:

http://www.inc.com/articles/2001/08/23257.html
http://www.bankersonline.com/operations/bg_criticism.html
http://tinyurl.com/5f8j9m

A public blog is pretty much the worst possible place you could choose to provide negative feedback. In this case there was really no need to subject the matter to public scrutiny at all -- you could easily have had a quiet word or e-mail exchange with the coach in question, or with any of the other CFNYC coaches.

In the future I urge you to read, carefully, 3 or 4 times, everything you write *before* you post it. Think about how it could be interpreted by other people. It would probably be instructive to think about how you would respond to it if it were written about you, by someone of whom you aren't particularly fond.

You are quite the personality, and I'm sure things would be dreadfully boring if you disappeared forever. But perhaps you could turn down the grandstanding a notch or twenty, if only to allow us poor office workers some time away from hitting refresh on the comments. Our bosses are starting to wonder why nothing is getting done.

We don’t sit around exchanging drafts of the daily blog posts. Allison B (herein refered to as Allison) does a superb job all on her own. This website is among the best read within CrossFit, primarily due to Allison’s work. (Thank you, Allison!)

Those of us with above an eighth-grade reading level invariably understand what Allison writes and posts. Today’s post apparently was less than crystal clear to a grand total of one person. This happens only rarely, the last time was when that same person was unable to understand the basic premise of an article Allison had linked to.

Below, I reproduce today’s post in its entirety, inserting my own interpretation.

“Breaking news, people. The first-ever CrossFit Level-1 cert in the New York metro area will be just a subway ride away in Brooklyn in October. Congrats to CFSBK for landing this cert. They've got a great space at the Brooklyn Lyceum and I'm sure they'll do a bang-up job hosting.”

Any coherent reader recognizes this as a generally positive opening, positive about Level 1 Certs, and positive about CFSBK.

“If you're thinking of attending, I would definitely advise signing up now as the Level-1 certs always go fast, and I would imagine even more so in a city of 8 million people (plus all the other East Coasters who've been looking to attend a driving-distance cert and haven't had any in a long, long time).”

Further encouragement for those “thinking of attending.” This would be a small subset of those who may read the post. Many of our visitors do not yet have a clear idea what CrossFit is and even less of an idea what a Level l Cert is.

“Some readers of our blog who are not members of the Black Box but are interested in CrossFit might wonder how a Level-1 cert differs from our Elements Workshop. Well, they differ in a lot of ways. Whereas the cert gives you a basic primer to the fundamental CrossFit movements over the course of 2 days, our Elements Workshop (whether in the small-group class setting or one-on-one) is more expansive in what it can and does cover. Furthermore, on a practical note, while a Level-1 cert costs $1000, our Elements Workshop costs only $300.”

Here, the author seeks to address those inexperienced with CrossFit. She refers to those readers “who are not members of Black Box” (but presumably might want to be). Now, strictly speaking this group might include some people with extensive CrossFit experience, but a far more reasonable interpretation is that it refers to those individuals seeking an initial introduction to CrossFit.

As a practical matter, Black Box requires all new members to go thorough Elements. Imagine a hypothetical person who has zero CrossFit experience but signs up for a Level 1 Certification, goes there, does his or her best, and graduates. Would we admit that person to Black Box without putting him or her through Elements. Though that situation has never presented itself, the answer should the situation ever arise, might very well be no.

One of our objective with Elements is make sure that people can show up for WOD classes with a basic vocabulary and shared set of experiences. For example, all should have done the CrossFit Total and have an idea what their 1RM’s are. All should have the experience of having used the C2 Rower, done “Fight Gone Bad,” etc.

“If you're already a personal trainer or considering becoming one, a Level-1 cert is a must if you'd like to be a CrossFit trainer.”

Here the author makes clear that Elements is not a substitute for those who wish to become CrossFit trainers.

“If you're excited about CrossFit but have no desire to ever teach it to others, you'll get much more added value for your money by attending one of our Elements Workshops. Perhaps some of our members who've done both a Level-1 cert and our Elements Workshop could speak to that in the comments.”

This is the author’s opinion, and for those who have little CrossFit experience to date, one with which I completely agree. People who have zero experience with CrossFit (can’t do a pull-up, haven’t held a barbell, recognize a pair of rings only from seeing them on television) can show up for an Element Workshop and get a thorough grounding in the fundamentals.

Although there are no formal requirements for attending a Level 1 Certification, it is pretty much a given that everyone shows up with CrossFit experience. At a Cert, when the WOD is “Cindy,” no one substitutes jumping or band pull-ups.

“I myself got involved at The Black Box before there was a formalized Elements Workshop training program; nonetheless I can tell you that the day-in, day-out training with our experienced CrossFit-certified trainers made me have a fuller understanding of CrossFit principles, methodology, etc., than any Level-1 cert ever could. Every day I still learn something and my understanding grows deeper, because I get to teach and learn beside our amazing staff.”

Here the author further elaborates on her experience.

“All that I say is not meant as a critique of the Level-1 cert as a concept; it's only meant to emphasize the fact that it takes much time and effort to fully absorb CrossFit and its many facets (i.e., gymnastics, powerlifting, Olympic lifting, kettlebells, etc.), and anyone who would attend our Elements Workshop and then become a member of our gym would learn (over time) all they could ever need to know about CrossFit. “

Here the author makes a factual statement: The Elements Workshop covers a significant amount of material not included at the Level 1 Cert. She also makes clear that this is in no way a criticism of the Level 1 Cert.

“Still confused? Ask questions in the comments and we the trainers and members of CFNYC will do our best to answer them in the comments.”

Finally, the author makes a sincere effort to continue the dialogue.

AllisonNYC
I see no need to meet you. I've seen too much of you on the net already. I just don't understand why someone so concerned with the training doesn't actually work as a trainer herself. Given your enormous talents and exposure. Why do you feel the need to criticize people who make their living doing Crossfit which you claim to love. Nobody criticizes you for the way you do your job whatever that is.

If they love you so much in AZ (and the training so superior) why don't you go back there? Leave us alone on the east coast.

AllisonNYC
I see no need to meet you. I've seen too much of you on the net already. I just don't understand why someone so concerned with the training doesn't actually work as a trainer herself. Given your enormous talents and exposure. Why do you feel the need to criticize people who make their living doing Crossfit which you claim to love. Nobody criticizes you for the way you do your job whatever that is.

If they love you so much in AZ (and the training so superior) why don't you go back there? Leave us alone on the east coast.

BWAHHHHHHHH HHHHHHAAAAAAAAA.

indeed.

Hari:

My only concern is for the safety of the people being trained at your gym.

I hope you have insurance.

Tune in next week for another exciting webisode of "See You Next Tuesday: The AllisonNYC Story"

Next week we learn which Crossfit Hottie AllisonNYC has a crush on. We will learn her thoughts on everything from training to eating to where are the best places to do pullups on scaffolding. Find out what she ate and how much she overhead squatted.

Find out which trainers are legit and which ones are lame. Find out if you should be training with a PVC pipe or a 65# barbell. Which Level Cert is right for you? AllisonNYC will tell you. Should you have insurance? Ask AllisonNYC!

All your questions will be answered when we See You Next Tuesday!

Are Cliff notes to this blog available?

From the anals of facebook:
Allison has a crush on a CF man. The hottest one out there.

Allison is headed to Virgina Beach for some Blauer action
Allison is feeling heartbroken after a crazy weekend in Virginia Beach.

ANd from your own workout log, there were lots of stories of drunkedness and partying in VB and then this:
"Has anyone else suffered from the devastating come down after a CrossFit weekend? I was suffering from one yesterday and today. So much stimulation and fun for days and then.. CRASH. I think the only remedy is a CrossFit WOD and a plane ticket out of NYC."

So why NOT

"snowman" if that's your REAL name...

You're obviously interested in what's going on in Allison Land.

Checking out my facebook and my workout log. Found it interesting enough to copy and paste it here. Not sure what it has to do with anything but I don't blame you. My log IS the most read thread by about 30,000 views. Guess that has at least a little something to do with you.

hahha ;)

Front Squat

95x10x5

Hi Marisela!

I miss u!

Marisela and Hari:

You are now two of my favorite people! I love your posts here today.

If you're ever in San Diego, please drop by Crossfit San Diego for a WOD.

Anon, "Frog" - it's totally bullshit to be attacking other crossfitters anonymously. Have some balls and sign your name.

miss you too michelle! was at the box today and i saw your name on the board, though i wasn't sure if it was you or another new one.

i've been working out at midcity. we should defo get together and do a wod. freak 'em all out.

i'm off to texas. gonna check in with plano, dallas and richardson crosfit!

not to mention see my brand new nephew and 18 month old niece.

...and maybe get a tan-finally

A2 - I'm sure I've had some pretty bad form disasters too ... I probably wouldn't want them dissected on a public message board, y'know? Even without my name being used. There's a time and a place... And in this case, Jessica SAID she didn't want that and you kept doing it.

Derek Rose: You're right. I left her name out of it for that reason but she volunteered it. It could have remained private if she was concerned with people knowing who I was talking about. It really wasn't about her as much as it was about the instruction. It could have been anyone.

Jessica, Derek is totally right. I apologize for using you as an example and dragging you into it.

Miss you guys but life has its own stories and issues.
Marisela hope you have fun in TX and enjoy those kids!!

i'm kind of a ninny :(

i did 5x10 back squats, which was hard enough before i realized that the wod called for front squats. poop

#45, 75, 75, 95, 95

then i did the front squats

#45, 65, 75, 80, 80

i was unsure if i should do any more based on how sore and tired i was. so i kinda sandbagged

thanx for the afternoon workout allison. i appreciate it.

Hah, what funny in-fighting from the T&A queen of xfit attacking a little regional office for not sucking up to the master leaders enough.
This and the idiotic comparing of xfitters to Olympic athletes got the most replies of any posts on this little blog ever I bet.

Ugh...talk about a completely unproductive comment thread to say the least.

I was going to respond, but now that I think about it I'd rather not.

All I'd like to say is that as I was walking back from this morning's WOD, I couldn't help but think what an extraordinary value I've found CrossFitNYC to be. Yet again, I got to work with Jacinto and was able to make some significant improvements to my form. I've found this to be the case across the board and can't express what I've gotten out of crossfitting these past few months.

Josh, thank you for your kind comments, really appreciate your sincerity.

95, 115, 135, 155, 175

Was seeing stars on the last few reps of 175, but I think I could eke out 10x 180 or 185 next time.

135 145 155 165 175
My wrists were screwed on the last set.

Can't remember initials, but max'd at 175.

Weight was not the issue, but legs being mangled from Murph yesterday!

you know, there's trolling, and then there's libel, esp. when you accuse a business of unsafe practices in a public forum. just as an FYI.

Speaking of Jacinto, did you know that he's Grandfather again for like the 9th time. Wow! Way to go Jack-O! Congrats!

Crossfit NYC Trainers,

I am an Army Crossfitter and have been, since last Jul (2007). I started while deployed in Iraq, and have since, become an x-fit addict:-) I am currently attending a Warrant Officer Basic Course in the Hampton Roads area of VA, and working out at Jeanie's Beach Crossfit in VA Beach and at Langely Airforce Base's gym. I will be coming up north this weekend to visit my brother in NJ. I would love to drop in and workout on Mon (1 Sep 08) if that day is not a conflict with your gym. The late morning, early afternoon time frame if possible. I think your Manhattan gym would have to be the one I would have to go to, as I see it is close to the train station, and that is how I would come up. Thanks

185x9
185x10
195x10
205x9
205x7

I had all kinds of trouble keeping my fingers on the bar. Very hard rep scheme. Legs were also pretty fatigued and sore from Murph yesterday.

thanks Teyler got a little baseball team going,now I need a DH.

115, 125, 135, 135, 135

May be of interest to some:
http://www.board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=36280

Looks like I accidentally joined a soap opera instead of a gym...

Anyway, I'm in the Virgin Islands for work, so I had to modify this a little bit even though I love front squats:

Warm-up:
Mamakers - sets of 5, starting at 25# DB's and working up to 45#

WOD:
Tried to use an EZ-curl bar to front squat. DON'T EVER DO THIS!!!!! It rolls, crushes your fingers & is then impossible to get down. I then used DB's instead

55# - 10
60# - 10
65# - 10
70# - 10
75# - 5 (it took about all I had to get those suckers to my shoulders)

DB's were crazy hard. My legs didn't feel it as much as w/ a BB, but my back & core got fried.

congrats on the grandkid, Jacinto.

James the early classes are
7am
12:30pm
you are welcome at anytime.

Jeannie's Beach Crossfit in VA beach is an awesome box.
(does jeannie have shirts yet?)

She said that she would be getting some in soon, as her internet sales were not doing so good. Her box is cool as hell, I love working out there. I will hit your 1230 class on Mon then. Do you have shirts there? hope so! Can't wait to meet you all. later

James

Jacinto, Congratulations!

James,

Sept 1 is Labor Day, and we are not yet certain about our schedule. You're welcome any time, but please first email

Allison@CrossFitNYC.com

to confirm the schedule and/or check the blog before you show up.

No clue why i'm getting involved in this debate..

When I went to my level 1 cert in Charlotte I realized how good the training was that I had received at the Black Box, because I didn't learn anything that hadn't already been drilled into me by Court/Keith/Josh/Mike. It was a fun experience and I got to meet interesting people, which were my main factors in going..

In fact, Greg Glassman himself said in his opening speech, that if we simply read all the journals we would get the same level of knowledge as coming to the cert.

On my return from the cert, when I next saw Court, I told him that it had shown me how good the teaching was at the black box.

---

I'm not sure why "A2" felt the need to publicly criticize the training here. It almost seems like she wants to make enemies. This is a relatively small community still and i'm not sure it pays to get a reputation as someone who back-stabs those she is supposedly close to and just generally causes trouble. Word gets around fast..

If she really "loved" this community she would want to help this affiliate and spoken to the trainers involved personally. It seems to me she is motivated more by her own dislike of certain persons rather than from any real interest in the quality of our training.

In my opinion there are two types of people, win-win people and win-lose people. Win-win people want to succeed themselves while helping others succeed too, this could be in business, relationships, any area of life. Win-lose people like to win at the expense of others. Win-lose people or companies can succeed for a certain amount of time, but sooner or later they are found out for what they are.

A2, before you reply and start spraying venom in my direction. Ask yourself, do you want to make friends and make people happy and help this community? Or do you want others to dislike you, create enemies and disharmony? Which sounds better? Do you really like being attacked by everyone? You could end this quite easily. Take ten deep breaths, think of a happy place :)

Congrats Jacinto!! I'll stop in tomorrow morning.

BW 159

worked up to 165 at the Brooklyn Box. Felt hard, though could have done a bit more had my legs not been mangled from Murph(44:20 as rx'd).

I've only been involved with Crossfit and CFNYC for a relatively short period of time. I have not met many people at CFNYC as I travel internationally and am away very often -like now.

However, what I do do is read this blog whenever I can (I am not always in places with access to internet, or internet at all for that matter). This blog is one of the main things that keeps me motivated - I love the fact that a mix of articles is posted here almost everyday and that the many people doing their WODs - and sometimes other workouts - post them here and comment on what they have done. I'm also happy to see debate and discussions on all sorts of topics. It connects me to a community that I am often removed from.

Many of the posts on today's comments have been disturbing and outrightly rude - as several people have pointed out... They have moved pst debate and discussion into something else. They have also detracted from the purpose and spirit of the comments feature.

I want to echo Josh and Bad Sam: I have been all over the world - literally - and I have seen many, many trainers of all sorts and types and want to once again send my praise to the trainers at CFNYC who I have had the pleasure of training with - especially Allison Bojarski who I did one-on-one elements privates with. Not only would I like to thank the trainers, but also others have have provided tips and comments when I was training, like Brian G who gave me great advice on proper form. For someone like me who is so often away, I remember the training, the tips, advice and all the little bits while training on my own - I can hear the comments in my head. This is what motivates me to work out my best without anyone there to see it but me.

Crossfit is a great concept and CFNYC has a great community and is part of an even larger great community - let's work on keeping the win-win focus which Bad Sam speaks of.

After spending the better part of my morning so far reading yesterday's blog, I am appalled at your behavior A2. The dedicated group of trainers and members at CFNYC deserve so much better than your petty trash. We are judged by our deeds, not by our words. However in the blogosphere, your words are your actions, and you have chosen your words and your battles poorly. While I hate to continue beating a dead hog, I am compelled to contribute, especially in light of your assault on Allison Bojarski, who in word and deed, is the only Allison I would ever deem worthy of the title AllisonNYC.

When I came to the box and they heard I was training for the Marines, I got more personal attention than I could have ever asked for. Court, Josh, Keith, Allison, and all the others who deserve mention here helped me to knock the ball out of the park. By the time I left in January, I knew I had been part of something special, where people genuinely cared about that stranger they just spotted doing heavy squats. Attention to detail, a strong committment to SAFETY, and professionalism are all phrases I would use to describe the black box.

A2: There are a lot of guys in my line of work who think you're great and love watching your videos in your various states of dress. A lot of them hear through the grapevine that I used to workout at the box, and want to know what you're like. I tell them all the same thing; you're all hype. You help people not because it makes you feel good or makes them better, you help them because it makes you look better. You're more concerned about yourself and peoples' perception of you than anyone I've ever met in my life. In fact, we've met enough times that I would expect you'd recognize me, but since I paid you no attention, I submit that you never would. Another interesting little thing I've learned over the years; perception is reality.

Training with such a great group of people is privilege not a right, and I hope after this latest rant, that they revoke that privilege for you. Then you can get that plane ticket and charge off into the sunset of the great American west, where you can really make your own way.

When I started this up yesterday it was because the suggestion that Hari specifically could or would offer even comparable training in an elements program to a cert confused me and actually made me mad after the things I've seen. The deadlift bit and the conversation to follow was not where I intended to go but I'm not upset that it did. It needed to be said.

Gabe: Considering you're such great friends with Allison and Marisela and my other "haters" I'm not surprised or offended by your opinion. I expect it. I'm cool with it. I'm not bothered in the slightest by anyone else's criticisms of my choice to voice my concerns either.

I stand by the things I said yesterday. Although they weren't received well by the people who post here I know through ENDLESS conversations on the phone, in person, through e-mail, not initiated by me that I'm not the only one who feels that way. I've talked with so many people about it - people who've done the elements and never went back, people who take the wod classes, people out of town who've visited. .... Even if I was the only one I would have said them all over again.

I'd like to clarify one thing - there ARE EXCELLENT trainers at the Box. Some great trainers who love what they do and care a great deal about the people who walk through that door. I know that. Would never deny it. This was not about them. I hope that my choice to bring this up does not reflect poorly on THEM.

There are some things going down there that aren't cool.
I've seen them with my own eyes. Why would I EVER say these things if I hadn't? Why is everyone so eager to overlook it?

I love CrossFit. I care deeply that people get the best possible CrossFit experience every time they do a wod. I have a genuine interest in helping people fall in love and STAY in love with CrossFit. That's not up for debate.

If I was only worried about my image I would have kept my mouth shut and ignored all that I've seen.

Where DO people go to make complaints? The ones I've made privately had fallen on deaf ears until yesterday. Even still I don't think ANYONE who responded gives a darn about the real issue - not me being a jerk, but the wrong things being instructed by SOME of the trainers.

-$25 for a class where it's ok for an instructor to say 3.2.1.go and then play on the computer or talk on the phone the rest of the class?

-When someone asks for pointers on an OHS and acceptable answer is "I don't know because I don't really do 'em". ?

-Deadlift disasters?

... Give me a break.

This conversation isn't going anywhere. Train Hard and Have Fun everyone.
OUT

AllisonNYC,

To date, we have held a total of 20 Elements Workshops, and I have not taught a single one. At one point, you asked rhetorically, “What did SHE [the woman you have sought to make an example of] learn in Elements? . . . Did the Elements program prepare her for a weighted Deadlift? Not from what I saw.”

The clear innuendo is that this woman had learned little or nothing in Elements. Later (no doubt after you found out that you had accidentally shot the wrong instructor, one whom you really prefer to praise) you back peddled, and wrote: “One more thing about my post about the DL girl. That disaster was not a reflection on the coach of the elements class.”

Your agenda is transparent.

Transparent indeed Hari.

Classless post on your part "AllisonNYC" -

"Hari:

My only concern is for the safety of the people being trained at your gym.

I hope you have insurance."

You've essentially passed judgment on CrossFit New York across the board. Without saying so, you insinuate that anyone training at this affiliate is in danger lest they train through a cert first.

Absolutely absurd.

65,75,80,80,82

THANKS AUDREY!

AND PAUL THANKS FOR THE MUSCLE UP TIPS-GOING TO PRACTICE TONIGHT AGAIN. AND I WANT A RAINCHECK ON THAT FAST UPPER BODY WORKOUT.

AS FOR A2-I MUST THANK HER FOR HAVING ME GET ALL MY WORK DONE YESTERDAY BECAUSE I KNEW I DIDNT HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO READ THE POSTS and WRITE ONE.

ONE THING I WILL SAYIS I ECHO MORGAN'S COMMENT. LIBEL IS NO JOKE AND THE ELEMENTS (NO PUN INTENDED) ARE VERY CLEAR. HERE IS A QUICK REFERENCE IF ANYONE EVER IS CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT THEY OR SOMEONE ELSE ARE SAYING ON THE BLOG - AND HOPEFULLY YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE

Libel exists when a person/BUSINESS is defamed. Defamation is communication (or an assertion of fact which is false) which AMONG OTHER THINGS injures ONE in their business or calling.

THE FIVE ELEMENTS OF LIBEL ARE SIMPLE:
PUBLICATION, IDENTIFICATION, DEFAMATION, FAULT AND INJURY

FOR THE RECORD, ONE CLASSIFICATION FO LIBELOUS WORDS IS DAMAGE TO A CORPORATION'S INTEGRITY.

AND WHILE COMPENSATORY DAMAGES ARE AWARDED, SO ARE PUNITIVE DAMAGES IN SOME CASES-AND FOR THAT THE PLAINTIFF NEED ONLY PROVE MALICE ON THE PART OF THE LIBELING PARTY.

CYALL TONIGHT

1 - How overblown were AliBo's comments?
2, I have been to a XFit cert and enjoyed the level of training but I have also worked with MLB all-stars, NFL 1st-round picks, and Beijing Olympians. I have tremendous respect for Crossfit and its methodology, but I have seen, worked with, and have become a "pro-grade" strength coach, and I didn't see anyone on the level of guys like Verstegen, Burgener (who wasn't at my cert), Caleb, Siff (ok, he's dead, but...) or even Parisi at my cert.

Glassman is freaking genius, he is, but XFit trainers (me too) have far to go before we can be considered that much better than the rest of the pack.
My experience helping Markus Baur (late 30's, 2-time German Handballer of the Year) prepare for his 3rd Olympics should bring plenty to the table if I ever choose to lead an elements class at the box - in my opinion, my experience brings more than that of most Crossfit coaches I had at my cert and, in fact, I found the cert to be a waste of money.

Now, I must say I agree with allienyc in that the xfit trainers are highly skilled and highly practiced in teaching, developing, and coaching xfitters, and the weekend experience with them would be invaluable. I also see AlliBo's point that elements classes last more than just 2 days and are overall smaller so the attention is better.

Final notes: 1)my girlfriend has trained with David at BK and I have no doubt in my mind that if he is involved, this will be a wildly successful cert. He is a great coach!
2) I do, however, think allienyc's original comments about the quality of training at the box (specifically calling out the trainers by name) is way out of line and disrespectful. However, she has worked with some great coaches and like any accomplished individual, brings a pair of balls (or whatever) with her - I knew her first coach and he has a huge ego. I'm assuming she did