Not sure if you have to sign up or not, but I would like to participate in the open gym tonight.

Anyone want to do the 135# thruster, Double Under workout?

An ugly situation??

I got a kick out of it. Loved the picture of the woman who wrote it and loved knowing who posted the link.

Beautiful female athletes aren't JUST celebrated for their looks. They are celebrated for they've what they've accomplished if you like to believe it or not. Some people just like to focus on how they look because they want to discredit their achievements. If anything THAT'S whats unfair. The people who cry sexism and unfairness aren't the ones appreciating their beauty AND success. They're the ones who are jealous and bitter.

It's possible to be feminine and beautiful and be appreciated for both. Very possible. It's not possible for some people to accept that.

Some people think it needs to be one or the other. --- If you're a female athlete you can't be admired for your looks or you're less of a professional or less of an athlete. That's bs.

This is real life. Get real and stop being so cranky about hot strong women who take their shirts off.

Jolie can whoop almost everyones butt in a WOD and there are pictures all over of her in a bikini. I back squat 220 and clean 150. You've all seen me in my bra.
When our names come up both things are mentioned - strength and beauty AND how freaking cool it is to have BOTH.....Unless it's the haters who are talking about women.

Women should be able to be who they are and persue their athletic careers without having a different set of rules than men. THAT'S equal rights. Everyone who says women should be more conservative if they're athletes are only holding women back.

hey alli-cali so are you saying the writer and the poster are biased because you don't think their pretty enough...

what kinda of bs is that?

This is tonight for those who want to go, but would a preference be to do this tomorrow (Friday rest) instead? If so we'll move.

Bigger, Stronger, Faster*
Thursday
9:15p

AMC Empire 25 - 234 West 42nd St

Leave after the 7p class to grab something to eat.

AllisonNYC,

The first two paragraphs of the article contain the main thesis. To translate it into CF terms, the author is asking why there are so few Annie's, Nicole's, and Eva T's among female athletes.

Your ad hominem attacks on both the author and the poster undermine your argument.

"When our names come up both things are mentioned - strength and beauty AND how freaking cool it is to have BOTH..... Unless it's the haters who are talking about women."

I don't think this writer is "hating" on pretty athletes in the least. I think she's merely pointing out the discrepancy that occurs between female athletes that choose to "sell out" to the media, versus those that stick primarily to their sport as a career.

Personally, I feel like this whole issue of being a "pretty" athlete should be a non-issue. Who cares if you look good in a bikini, if you're not the best athlete?

Currently, female athletes are having to choose between marketing themselves into a image-oriented package (often involving posing provocatively for men's magazines, etc.), or receiving less endorsements and sponsorship because they are just focusing on their sport as their primary career. The downside to this is that most female athletes get less money for their involvement in sports even at elite levels when compared to men. Even the women who are posing in the magazines, still command less money (on average) then their male counterparts.

It is fine if a female CHOOSES to promote herself in a manner which is based primarily on her sexuality, but when it becomes a de facto requirement to become a successful athlete then something's clearly gone wrong. If a woman chooses not to go this route and suffers in terms of her training, her career, her development as an athlete... is that fair??

Certainly as the writer pointed out, image is a concern for all professional athletes, male and female, (i.e. Derek Jeter) especially at that sort of elite level, but there is clearly a double standard for women to even achieve the same levels of compensation, support, sponsorship that most average male professional athletes receive.

I don't blame or judge these women for choosing to pose in Maxim, etc. if it falls in line with their values and lifestyle; in fact if they are choosing to do so and are profiting from it, more power to them. The key issue here is that a woman shouldn't even HAVE to make this choice to get recognition or advancement in their respective sport, however there is tons of evidence which points to the contrary.

Avery Quote:

"The key issue here is that a woman shouldn't even HAVE to make this choice to get recognition or advancement in their respective sport, however there is tons of evidence which points to the contrary."

I think it is important to separate recognition from advancement in your sport. Ostensibly, advancement in a sport results from higher performance and the ability to beat players who aren't as good. Recognition comes from many sources, part of which is advancement, but part of which is marketing and being in the spotlight.

Everyone has to make a choice as to whether and how they will market themselves, hence the term "sell-out" gets tossed around to mark those who either over-market themselves or do it in a way that other people believe is undignified. Some female athletes don't advertise as much, or do it with more of their bodies covered, which doesn't make them prudes or ashamed of their often beautiful bodies. It means they chose a different path than someone who is willing to strip down and show it off. Reality means that beautiful women who are willing to take most or all of their clothes off are probably going to make more money than those who don't.

I think the article is an open letter to female athletes to take the less marketable approach and a blatant hope that people will appreciate that more. That is the sad part, as the author is doomed to failure. Female athletics don't have the following and marketing dollars that their male versions do, so to get recognition they have to sell what is valuable, which is not ability.

AllisonNYC - "You've all seen me in my bra."

May I ask why? If anything, I thought that the clip showing this that I am familiar with (the second in the "Die Hard" series http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_AllisonNYCWebisode2r.mov) really came off as kinda weird...almost creepy. Most importantly, I felt it was actually a negative portrayal of you as a Crossfit athlete who is capable of some impressive feats. In this and the other such videos, these feats are just not highlighted to the audience by showing several weights, times and rounds. What are singled out across the series can best be described by the opening titling of the most recent one "Whoa - look at her boobs and arms!" (although to be fair, I think one of the videos had a selection of more butt-oriented shots.)

Don't get me wrong, had you flung off your shirt in pursuit of some great Fran time or even removed it in celebration Mia Hamm-style, that would have been fine. That would have been a spontaneous effort entirely within context of much of what I believe CrossFit is about. But what really compounded the problem was that I did not catch any personal offense with the video portrayal from you. It may not be my place to be offended "for you", but I actually was - and further, felt like you had done your fellow - especially female - CrossFit members a disservice.

To the contrasting point you raised, have we seen pictures of Jolie in a bikini? Yes. However Jolie's professional background in law enforcement combined with her achievements seem to be the first-order definitions of her person, with her appearance - even "femaleness" - coming only afterwards. Videos with Jolie featured within them show her doing things like, competing (with times/weights shown), executing take-downs and the like. Even her interview, while still playful, stay a lot more "on topic" with CrossFit.

I am not saying this because I think you are awful or to shame you - I do because I think you could be a really great representative for CrossFit yet you have made some choices and taken some actions that have (and will) take you in the opposite direction (in my opinion, of course.)

I feel like this arguement should focus more on society's buying habits and less on the athletes themselves. If Americans bought products endorsed by the best women athletes in their field, this idea of needing to be pretty to get endorsement deals would fall by the wayside. Unfortunately, the economics of the situation show that BOTH women and men care less about the ability of the female athlete than about their looks. The best way to combat this would be to show true support for the best in the field; only then will marketing departments, large corporations and magazines all over the world take notice.

It's just a flaw of society that even the "enlightened" at Crossfit are guilty of sometimes (or at least an small aspect of the above problem). I thought that "Glory Box" video was ridiculous - when would they ever do a video of closeups of the crossfit men's backs, butts, etc? They wouldn't! So why do we did it for the women? When has anyone ever made a concerted effort to assure the men who do Crossfit that they are making themselves beautiful? Never! Then why is there such a focus on how beautiful Crossfit women are? I think only when we take these notions out of the equation do we stop the double standard.

I am not saying compliments should stop or anything like that (feel free to call me beautiful whenever you'd like); I am just hoping that one day the beauty of all of us is taken a given, so we can stop the goofy close up shots, the men vs. women "ass-whoopings," etc. and get back on the pull up bar. Women at the Box destroy me in a ton of WODs; trust me, its not worth making a video of. When you place special attention on those things you are only placing more focus on the problem, not creating a solution.

Raise your hand if you've ever heard of Ashley Harkleroad. If so, had you heard about her 6 months ago?

Now, will you hear more about her in two months? I'll answer that one for you: damn right. Will it be because she just won a competition (quick, name her sport)? Fat chance.

"I thought that "Glory Box" video was ridiculous. etc."

Tom, I agree, but CF dudes are also quite prone to feeling too sexy for their shirts. I can "understand" being unable to perform one more set of thrusters in a sweat-drenched t-shirt (my advice: buy a more functional shirt), but going shaved pecs "à l'air" specifically for a cert group photo is just one step away from tan-in-a-can and flexing in a bikini in front of a mirror. So like you said, we're just a reflexion of society.

In fact, I think it would be a mistake to believe or hope that CF and CF'ers as a whole are more enlightened than the rest of the world in any field other than "increasing power output". There's just no particular correlation between heavy weights and deep thoughts.

Paul S,

Just show up, if you can't register on line. I'll be glad to time you for the thruster / double-under WOD.

What is happening is purely a direct result of human nature.

a) Humans are sexual beings. Men are attracted by women. Women are attracted by men. Sex sells.
b) Humans are competitive and are always striving for more wealth and a better standing in life.

Put those two facts together and boom. What do you get? Is this a surprise?

Why bother even arguing about the morality of it (the author implies the women who do this are weak). It's like calling a tiger immoral for killing antelope.

Easy breezy make-up workout:

Hang power snatch: 95lb x1 x5

Beast: 10 reps @ 95lbs, resting between each rep, no rush.

I'm in the middle of tennis season and I'm having trouble balancing the usual intensity of CF with the fact that I can't afford to have DOMS on game day. For example, the thruster/DU WOD killed my legs, and the Clean/situp WOD killed my abs and hip flexors. I can't let that happen over the next few days.

Does anyone else have experience with this, maybe the hockey players among us? Should I lower the weights, slow down, create my own workouts?

sam
so looks like we are just meat looking at meat.

im in for the movie.

Ewen,

Do you follow the Crossfit advice as regards, 9 hours of sleep per night, fish oil supplements, zone dieting etc?

From all the accounts i've read, if you are really strict with your diet and lifestyle, doms shouldn't be that big of a problem.

Also, are you stretching adequately post workout?

Sam,

I try to get as much sleep as I can, but I'm not into supplements and counting blocks. Maybe my diet and lifestyle are in fact to blame here. I'll see if I can make some adjustments and add more stretching.

Wait a minute, are you somehow implying that I lack common sense?? :-)

Ewen
These are the things I would consider:

Timing
I usually start to feel soreness around mid-day the day following a workout or the day after that. Keep in mind when you're going to start feeling the effects, when it's going to peak, and how long you can expect to feel that way.

The workout itself
Are there really high reps? Is it an exercise that you feel like you haven't done in a while? For most CrossFitters, we do so many pull ups that we can reasonably do over a hundred and not feel sore at all later. However, you can usually count on feeling a little sluggish the day after 400m walking lunges.

Ways to alleviate DOMS
Stretching and warm downs might help rid some of the lactic acid buildup. Brian D told me to take cold showers to prevent shin splints. Get some of his input.

General fatigue aside from DOMS
Just because you aren't feeling particularly sore doesn't mean that your performance won't dip if you end up doing a nasty WOD too close to game time.

Stop being such a pussy
Seriously.

Okay, just kidding on the last one.

I just usually avoid doing WODs on game day and I rarely have enough foresight to consider WODs from the day before. If I really feel the need to do something but think the full WOD is too much, I'd consider cutting the number of reps/rounds or time limit first rather than lowering weights. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "slow down". I can agree that you maybe you shouldn't aim to destroy your PRs, but if you're talking about a very deliberate effort to go slower, I don't see that being particularly beneficial. Isn't this supposed to be about power, after all?

Finally, consider our sports. I'm playing beer league hockey where my teammates can afford to carry me if I'm underperforming. That means I can show up with big bloody holes in my hands and nobody is going to think that that is going to affect on my scoring ability or the outcome of the game.

SO, are David Beckham and Derek Jeter sell outs? Should we ask WHY OH WHY are they objectified by women?? Do their good looks make them sell outs or make anyone question if they would be respected as athletes as much if they weren't so good looking.

The double standard is that this arguement only comes up when talking about women.

Hari- I'm not attacking anyone. If anything it's someone else who likes to do the attacking. I feel like I'm doing the defending.

Juan- don't be crazy. That's not what I'm saying at all. I said that because the link was posted by the same person who bashed Jolie for sporting a bikini in the journal while she was wearing and outfit covering only slightly more of her own body. It's hypocritical and I find it very amusing.

Tom- Ya know why I think they made the Glory Box video?? To show women who are scared of CrossFit because they don't want to Bulk up or look like men that they can do intense workouts and the side effects are looking strong,beautiful and feminine.
Another reason -- to show off the beauty of the human form at it's strongest.

I can't understand why anyone would be offended by highlighting the beauty of CrossFit women.

When are You people who are SO offended going to start pitching a fit when there's a picture of a shirtless man on the main site???

I'll be looking for your comments complaining to Greg and Lauren about how inappropriate it is to have a half naked man on CrossFit.com and asking how we're supposed to take that man seriously as an athlete.

Until then...

I don't believe women HAVE to use their looks to advance their athletic careers. But I believe that they CAN. As Frustrating as it may be for some.. it's the way the world is.

Sam Quote:
"Why bother even arguing about the morality of it (the author implies the women who do this are weak). It's like calling a tiger immoral for killing antelope."

I think the author, and members of the board, argue about it because it is a question of what is socially acceptable. The author wants to push for a social criticism of athletes who choose to disrobe to increase fame and money and push for a social benefit for those who don't do so while performing at a high level of competition.

I think your analogy can be reduced even more to the question: "If human beings crave sex naturally and are willing to spend some of their finite resources pursuing it, why do we, as a society, look down on prostitutes?" Regardless of whether it is illegal, there is a social criticism of whores, which carries over to the etymology of a sell out being called a whore.

The author continues this belief by saying that selling sex, in the form of pictures that appeal to the prurient interest, demeans the physical accomplishments of the women who participate in them and lessens their stature in the public eye.

I'm not sure that this is true, but I do know that I shared some of Moon's discomfort while watching the Diehard videos.

Jurt and Moon- If you guys are so uncomfortable with women being objectified particularly in the gym why don't your put your votes in for a dress code?? No tiny shorts, no sports bras (especially when worn with knee high socks)

You'll be one step closer to making sure men don't look at women in a sexual way ;/

ANYC,

"I can't understand why anyone would be offended by highlighting the beauty of CrossFit women."

I would say it is because the beauty of CrossFit practitioners is irrelevant and obscures the message of "forging elite fitness".

And maybe because it smashes the illusion some may have that CF is an enterprise that is above the fray and would never cater to the lowest common denominator to make a buck. But like I said before, generally speaking, CF is simply in tune with the rest of society, no more, no less.

Are David Beckham and Derek Jeters sell outs?

Is that a trick question? :)

ROFL, way too funny.

Alex - that's a quality contribution if I've ever read one. Good job.

Ewen

Thanks for the heads-up on Ashley Harkleroad. Good stuff : )

Ewen, I just try to not double wods with days I'm playing hockey. Trying to Crossfit without getting sore is like pushing a rope. I only play hockey once a week though. If I played more frequently I might consider reducing volume of work...so a little lighter, a few less reps. I also find that if I start a game with sore muscles the adrenaline and endorphines usually kick in pretty quick.

Why are you baiting me? Was my comment directed to you?

News flash, not everything is about you.

Kurt,

do you experience this discomfort when say, reading a maxim article (with accompanying photos) about a celebrity such as Anna Kournikova?

I would guess no. Why? Because that is expected in such a publication.

I think the reason people are "feeling discomfort" about the A2 videos is that Crossfit has set itself up to be ALL about extreme fitness and nothing else. So when a video is posted that is clearly all about female aesthetics people are up in arms about it. That's fair enough.

I, personally, have never watched any of the "Die Hard Crossfitter" videos. I only watch the videos that are instructional and I assumed those wouldn't be.

Don't misconstrue my post Kurt, or setup some sort of straw-man. There's a big difference between taking your top off and sleeping with strangers.

Is it really a big deal for someone to get paid a million dollars for doing something they do at the beach every summer? Seems like good business sense to me.

AllisonNYC,

You write: "I'm not attacking anyone. If anything it's someone else who likes to do the attacking. I feel like I'm doing the defending."

You attacked the author's physical appearance, suggesting that her argument be dismissed because she is not attractive, and you attacked Allison for even linking to the article. ("Loved the picture of the woman who wrote it and loved knowing who posted the link.") This is the definition of an ad hominem attack.

Neither the article itself nor Allison's decision to post it can reasonably be construed as an attack on you personally. Allison found the article at Crossfit Watertown, where it was linked to with this comment: "[I]f you are a woman or you ever met one, you should read this and tell us what you think about it." In other words, this never was about you.

In your own mind, you made it all about you and came out swinging. Worse, it is clear from your comments that you either did not read or did not understand the article.

If you now find yourself needing to defend yourself, it's your own damn fault.

Completely changing the subject.

At the Brooklyn Box tonight, myself, Erica, Juan and Kurt devised a nice little partner wod.

Run 400m while your partner does Knees to elbows.
Switch around.
Do 100 walking lunges while your partner does Knees to elbows.
Switch around

Each pair have to complete 200 squats and 200 sit ups in total. They can switch around as needed to complete 200 of each exercise.

The wod took both teams about 15 minutes. Good stuff.

cfwu x 1

135x5

185x5
205x5
225x5
235x5
245x5

Sam,

The case of A Kournikova is actually quite telling. You call her a celebrity. Some might say she's a tennis player. She was a European junior champion, won 2 Grand Slam doubles titles, was a Grand Slam finalist 3 times (one doubles, one mixed doubles), was ranked 8th in the world in singles and no.1 in the world in doubles at one point of her career, and won 16 double titles on the WTA Tour.

And yet, she's mostly known for her looks. In fact, her accomplishments as an athlete are disregarded and mocked ("She never won a singles title!") because all that remains in the mind of the average sports fan is marketing hype and short skirts.

I think the point of the article was that athletes aren't supposed to be in the business of selling their looks. Models, actors and, why not, prostitutes, are. Sure, the lines are blurred all the time. That doesn't mean we can't acknowledge that the lines exist. You do so yourself by not watching videos that you feel aren't informative. The author simply wishes more people, both athletes and "viewers", would do the same.

Hey, Ewen --- My rec for reducing DOMs is most definitely a 5-10 min cold shower. The reason being is it reduces soreness as well as lowering the body temperature. As we know when the body temp lowers the body draws fluids away from the extremeties, bringing it closer to the heart. What happens then is lactic acid (and all the other crap you accumulate) will also be drawn away from the muscles. Another reccomendation is to stop following CF as Rx'd; make up your own WODs according to your tennis schedule and practices.

And A2, sadly enough, for women, bearing your breasts lends yourself to sexual objectification (in our society), and I'm sure you (at least from what I can tell) do not want to be objectified for that reason. You may not find it indecent to take your top off but guess what? There are pigs out there that will objectify you when doing that, and will harass and taunt you. It is a fact, and sadly this permeates throughout all of society.

Women get more objectified in public because women have, for hundreds of thousands of years, been thought of as weaker and less abled than men. Women were never meant to have "sexual desires" or "appetites." It's a shame but it is true, and this attitude dates back to ancient Greece. The reason being was because men had a penis and women did not. Men were doing the deed and women were on the receiving end. It meant power. Women were thought to be envious of men's power (read: penis) and competed for it. We must also remember that Greeks were a very sexual people as well; sexual acts were very explicitly depicted on vases and in graffitti, the penis was EVERYWHERE, but the respectable women were never exposed, literally and figuratively, in public due nor did they socialize with men because of their weakness and ability to be easily corrupted; respectable women were never flirtatious or unfaithful. These two facts are clearly integrated into our society.

In some societies, women were thought to have brought out the indecency in men, which was one reason to keep them locked up and clothed in the home. They were meant to be restricted because of this reason. This is yet another point that has fused with our world. Sexuality was not seen as a BAD thing. A vice if one let it control their life, but it certainly was not seen as an evil act. Religion really brought that around. Temptation of the flesh now put you on the bad side of God. The past influenced what we are and our values of today.

Now is it a good thing or a bad thing to walk around topless, for either man or woman? It would depend on who you are talking to. Personally, I see that the naked body is a sign of trust. You have to trust someone to bare yourself completely to them. You trust them not to mock or laugh, but to accept who you are. It is an expression of love. With that said, in my opinion, expressing your love on that level should be done amongst your closest of friends, not the entire world.

However, I also believe that a general consensus would say that a woman to expose her breasts in the gym would be the equivalent of a man exposing his genetilia. Nobody, who is focusing on working out, wants to see either flopping around; also it would be a hindrance to performance to have both just free.

Ewen
Brian's recommendation of a 5-10 minute cold shower for dealing with DOMS is also my recommendation for dealing with Ashley Harkleroad.

165, 175, 185, 195, 205

oh and by the way-the person who posted the article can whoop just about anyone's butt and guess what-ALSO happens to be pretty!

A2-go figure.

very wise Brian DeGeneres :)
well said.

Movie was pretty cool last night.
Thanks andy for setting it up