I call vest.

I call nobody uses my vest.

I callwe reduce the number of pullups to the number of lbs that tyler's vest weighs and call it even

caption:

"right after I bite into a 12kg kettlebell at crossfitNYC -I get the sensation of gale force winter winds whipping through my hair.....''

Sounds like you are eating a mint candy.

17:23 pr

nice work noon folks!

at nysc 28:10

34:59

pull ups with tan and black band

everything else was rx'd

last time i did this, i did 80 full push ups and 20 on my knees and tyler told me they only counted for knees. this time i was determined to do them rx'd.

good times

34:57?

pull ups with the giganto-red band

push ups on my knees

Thanks Allison for helping me with the kipping motion. I hate that I can only do it once before I start to swing like a monkey. Going to have to work on that....

I think I'll be feeling this one for a while ;)

Jacinto-it seems that perhaps you and i are among the few old enough to remember those commercials....

they are all on you tube now. they were pretty ridiculous. but memorable. they sold the product.

50 dead-hang pull-ups
50 bar dips
50 incline sit-ups+10lb
100 squats+45lb

19:54

This is 4' faster than my best regular Angie, so maybe I should have done 75 of the first 3 exercises. Squats unbroken, everything else way broken (sets of 5, mostly).

I call GHD.

BTW - this is a pretty interesting CrossFit Athletic Skills matrix that Court showed me the other day. Hope it's not a rerun.
http://crossfitseattle.com/Skill%20Levels%201-IV%20spreadsheet.pdf

Michelle and Jacinto - now I want a York Peppermint Patty ;)

Moon,

You can have the GHD, but I'm pretty sure unless specified the sit-ups are with Abmats.

Took a look at the link. Elite Athlete for "Work" is craziness:
2 db/kb clean & jerk: 150 reps in
10 minutes men 24kg women 16kg

Actually I just read through it all and they're all really impressive feats.

Robzilla - I don't see much about there being vests involved either. But since both the vests and GHD are limited, I thought I would make sure I call dibs so I could do my own hopefully-sub-45 minute Angie remix. :)

IMO scaling up (using a GHD instead of Abmat or using a weight vest) really should be done once the RX'd time is really low. When there really isn't any room for improvement then make it harder.

Until then you'll just be lowering the intensity.

Get a sub 20 at least and then make it harder.

28:30

Took a nice chunk out of my hand on the pullups.

Moon,

Gotcha. My comment was less telling you how to do your workout and more rationalizing mine so I can use the abmat.
I would use the GHD, reluctnatly so, if it called for it but I'm not sure if I'm ready to volunteer for another 100(+) reps on that monster. I need to throw more of those into my warmups first.

ANYC,

Scaling up changes the nature of the workout, but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing. After all, the WOD's are generically designed, therefore they're already completely different workouts for each of us because we have different strengths and weaknesses. In fact, in an ideal world we might scale every weighted workout based our max lifts or bodyweight (according to the FAQ's, the generic Crossfit male weighs in at 175lb). In my opinion, the main reason for doing a workout as Rx'd is to have a basis for comparison with other Crossfitters, or from one attempt to the next.

As regards intensity, we deal with a whole range of levels, from topping out your rate of motion (Cindybots who blaze through 35 rounds) down to slogging through singles and failed reps (for me, any WOD with HSPU's). Since it can be hit and miss whether you scale up or down or just go as Rx'd, why not experiment once in a while? Being able to mess around with the WOD's to create our own little prescription for multifaceted pain is one of the few good things left in this world. Don't knock it! :)

Robzilla - Thing is, I too have been reluctant to use the GHD in WODs because I thought I would suck at it. But after trying it a few times....well, I do indeed suck at it. Under my new "Stop sucking so much." guidelines, I feel obligated to work on this.

A2 - I think I understand your point and I 40% agree with you. However I have these counter concepts that stick up in my head. First there is the special case of the GHD which I think differs from the case of the vest. The reason I mentioned them together was because they are limited resource items. Secondly, if I had to maintain a specific intensity in all of these, then I might want to scale down (or up) in other parts of Angie - which seems...well, not done. Then there's the issue of improvement and how to get there. Finally, there is the issue of when to know to scale overall.

Expanding on these briefly...

1) In the beginning, there was the abmat. And I was told to do abmat situps and I could do a few at first and that number slowly improved later and all was good. Then came the GHD and it was presented as the all-around master ab machine. At the cert, they told us nothing of the exotics - heavy frans, weight vests, swimming WODs, etc - but we got a pretty long lecture on how to train clients on the GHD and it was not presented in a "for the elite only..." light.

2) 100 pushups is a lot. I believe that I am going to have declining numbers from round to round until I am knocking out just a few - or less - per cycle when I am up in the 90's. Here, intensity is almost certainly going to be lost as muscle fatigue will be the prime limiter. Does this mean that I and others in the same position should go to knee pushups, for example, to maintain intensity at this point? I just do not feel that has been our convention. The flip side of this for the accomplished squatter might be to wear a vest, use a smaller butt-ball for squats or simply do another 100 squats to maintain oneself in the high-intensity space for longer. Not that 100 squats is a cakewalk, but it's definitely not as intense as the same number of pullups or pushups. (YMMV)

3) Early on, the sage exchange was delivered unto me by our benevolent CrossFit Overlords: "Question: What can I do so that I so more ups? Answer: Do more ups." If I want to be able to do mo/better GHD situps, why should I deviate from working with the GHD more in WODs and warmups? Let me say, GHD situps don't *crush* me - while I certainly slow, I used it to make Michael (3x50) much more challenging for me. If I have to hit a certain aggressive threshold to use it, I wonder/worry that I could find myself doing abmat situps for a very very long time before even approaching the GHD - and then because basically I have not been doing full ROM ab work, would find myself very well trained to do an inferior motion.

4) Carrying that idea forward, how would one know when to make the transition? I know you said sub 20 min, but where did that number come from? I guess I'm thinking of the abmat as the "pullup band" equivalent (certainly so with feet anchored, but that is a whole 'nother story) and as in pullups, once I could do a few, I didn't go back to using the band - I just took longer to complete the WODs that had pullups, trying to improve each time.

These are the ideas that make up the basis of that other 60% of me that says "You gotta do it." Not that I *want* to do it, but just that it is more I should be doing (I think we all have that voice in our heads, no?) Anyone have thoughts here?

I'm not so much doing a scaled up Angie today as I'm doing a scaled down Murph.

Speaking of which, the countdown is at about 2 months, max.

-----

GHD is going to suck for you Moon Man.

Ewen: I'm not knocking tweaking WODs to meet personal needs. I'm a fan of it. But note the word NEED. If you don't NEED to make it harder then WHY make it harder? Like you said - chances are you'll be altering the nature of the WOD.

Moon: I love the idea of attacking your weaknesses. I'm also a big believer in doing things as RX'd once it's possible to do so even if it makes it a little harder. BUT not at the expense of intensity.

If you have a 40 minute Angie it seems like there is lots of room for improvement with the workout the way it is without making it harder.

If my "Grace" with the Rx'd weight was 15 minutes there wouldn't be a NEED to bump up the weight.

Once it got down around 3:30 I figured I should increase the weight because there wasn't a lot of room to improve.

Why make a workout harder if you don't have to??

The GHD is a great piece of equipment. So is the AbMat. If your abMat situps are slow then you need to work the hell out of them before you move on to a more advanced exercise. If they're fast then use them as a rest period during Angie to get your time down.

Can you do 25 unbroken GHD sit ups? 20? 10? Why not work on them during your warm up everyday instead of kill yourself during a workout once in a blue MOON? :)

I guess what it comes down to is your personal goals with a WOD.

Anchored sit-ups aren't the pull-up band of sit-ups. We anchor our feet during workouts like Angie so we can go faster (that's the point of WODs like this.) Think about anchored sit-ups like Kipping Pull-ups.

Two signs you need to make an Rx'd WOD harder:
-your reps on most things are unbroken or close to it
- your time is low and pretty much the same every time (think a 3:00, 3:05, 2:59 Fran ..probably time to increase the thrusters)

I'm not saying it's wrong to mix it up. I think it's good to add some variety.. But 100 GHD sit-ups?? Why not just PUSH WAY harder on the ABmat??

I actually think both Allison and Moon make great points, and the thing is you are both right... In this case I would probably lean more to Moon just for the simple fact that we do Angie quite often, and for the "varied" side of things. I understand the propensity to want to change it up, especially with the sit-up side of things where they tend to be the "easier" part of the WOD and one that we seem to drill constantly. If it was a WOD that we hadn't done in quite some time (ala Murph) or something new, I would be more hesitant in thinking that its a good idea of changing it from as Rx'd, unless you have to due to ability.

I did "Angie from behind!"
100 Squats
100 Situps
100 Pushups
100 Pullups

24:09

It's slightly faster that way. I think my previous best was around 27min. It's the same amount of work in less time so it was more intense for me. Still sucked every bit as much as doing it from the front.

Angie comes up sort of often.. but how often do we do sit ups in a wod?

My question as a trainer is - is a person really ready to do 100 GHD sit ups during a WOD?

When I was Demoing the GHD Adrian suggested the ABMat is appropriate for a sit up WOD (keep in mind there are variations to that : anchored, unanchored, and the butterfly style with the legs open).. I think the anchored style is best for a high rep workout like angie for speed and intensity. Someone asked when and if we should be using the GHD during workouts like this. I guess you can.. but a client should probably be able to demonstrate the ability to do about 20 - 25 back "extensions" and sit-ups before abandoning the abmat and going for the GHD..

Keep in mind that Abmat situps can be a REAL B!tch when done crazy fast. My abs have never been so sore as when I did anchored sit ups during Annie... Except for the first time I used the GHD and did 30 sit-ups. I thought I caught rhabdo in my tummy. Dan D can back me up on that one.

But hey.. if you want to use the GHD more power to ya! I've been known to push it. Again.. why not work on the GHD sit ups and back extensions during Warm up? Shoot for 25 unbroken?

Just to be clear I don't think I know it all and i'm not telling you what to do. I think it's an interesting topic and this is just my opinion. :)!

30:30

22:24

With regards to Marines getting on the Crossfit train:

Check out www.crossfitwarehouse.com and www.crossfitripper.org

In the spirit of making things harder, I think I'll wear a weightvest for tomorrow's deadlifts. Thoughts?

Caption:

"Staci rehearses for the next CrossFit NYC/Babeland cross-marketing campaign"

Angie
Sub 100 GHD
43:41

Angie as RX'd 26.28

A2:

"If you have a 40 minute Angie..." I don't - I think I was unclear - the sub 45 min Angie was my goal for today while doing it with the GHD. Next time, this goal will be moved to sub 39. :)

"BUT not at the expense of intensity."
In today's Angie, the pullups and especially the pushups were eventually reduced to 5 (or less) in the last 80%. With some effort, I was able to maintain 5 rep sets of GHD situps up through to the end (excepting when the "GHD headache" would get really bad.) So I never felt I had it easier or was working less with the GHD when compared to the previous 2 rounds.

"Why make a workout harder if you don't have to??"
Why climb the high mountains? If we wanted to have an easy go at things, let's go do Pilates (which, to be fair, can be hard at times - but not CrossFit-hard.)

"Think about anchored sit-ups like Kipping Pull-ups." That is a really good point. I will have to think on this.

"But 100 GHD sit-ups?? Why not just PUSH WAY harder on the ABmat??" Because the GHD offers a fuller ROM that one cannot get on an Abmat. I don't see how one will get the same engagement and resultant benefit no matter how fast one goes. My take: Crunches

"Just to be clear I don't think I know it all and i'm not telling you what to do. I think it's an interesting topic and this is just my opinion. :)!"
Certainly so - this has been a very good conversation and I appreciate your taking time to post your opinions in detail.

i for one did not make it harder than it had to be. at all
i did not do any of it.
thinking of coming in an hour before the lunch class just to get the 100 pullups in. jeez.

Edit: "My Take: Crunches are to abmat situps what abmat situps are to GHD situps."

moon you must have done very well on the "analogy" section of the SAT. nice.

finish this one:
mudslides are to desserts as moon is to

So my date with the vest didn't go quite as well as I planned. I added 10 more pounds and about ~12 minutes/50% more time than when I did it with 20#. By about the 16th pull up, my kip was severely hindered and I realized that I probably blew my wad pre-WOD, on my +40# 1/5 Angie warmup.

Coming in this much slower definitely cost me some metcon-y intensity, since failure limited me to triples at some points.

By the way, I shed about 2 pounds of sweat by the end of Angie. Ewen, when you record your vested DLs tomorrow, don't forget to add 42#s to whatever's on the bar.

So I just lanced three big and juicy blisters on my hands from the pullups (not counting the other 2 that opened up mid-workout). That slowed me down pretty badly once I got above 80 and I finished up holding on to the bar with my fingertips.

My time: 32:47

This one killed me. Seriously, I haven't been this knocked out by a workout since...my last WOD.

This has turned into a really good discussion. I'd just like to make one more observation, though.

The GHD situps and the ABmat situps are two different exercises.

As the name suggests, The Glute-Ham Developer will have more emphasis on your glutes and hamstrings as well as your abs.

The ABmat will focus solely on your abs, unless your feet are anchored and your swinging your arms around to create momentum upwards (which tends to happen when your feet are anchored). In that case you're also using your hip flexors.

Is it bad to do it one way or the other? I don't think so. You're still getting a hell of a workout. But even though it's a great workout the two still differ.

For more fun reading about repeat workouts and whether or not to use benchmarks, check out this blog post.

http://www.board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=30847&page=3

For more fun readin

Hey everyone!! Since the the weather was so great, I decided to do Angie in Astoria Park.

Angie
17:38(pr) as rx'd anchor less sit ups

My pull ups and push ups felt slow at first but, I must have been keeping up a decent pace, though I did get distracted by the view from time to time. My push ups were down to 3's early on but I kept up a good pace with them and found a nice rhythm. Thought my legs would be screaming after doing "Scott's mom" yesterday (legs, 20 OHS/30 FS/ 42 BS with 95#) but surprisingly they didn't fail me.

i was like 33-something. Not so hot. Came straight from the bikram yoga. But I did wear my heart rate monitor and had a max heart rate of 177! (avg. 154).

Robzilla - "The ABmat will focus solely on your abs, unless your feet are anchored and your swinging your arms around to create momentum upwards (which tends to happen when your feet are anchored). In that case you're also using your hip flexors." - Ok - that's fair. But isn't that exactly how we are doing the Abmat situps in the case of this and many other WODs?

I liked the link - thanks.

Michelle - There are some pretty good analogies that I could use to illustrate the appearance of the Charlotte mudslide but this description is entirely not suitable for reading by upstanding mothers like yourself or others with delicate sensibilities.

Derek - Is 154 your resting heart rate? What does the heart rate number mean in terms of next time - that you should try to hit that number to verify you are working as hard or that you should not hit that number to verify that you are becoming more efficient in either overall power and/or efficiency?

Jeff, you did Angie with a 30# vest??? And pre-WOD sets of 20 with 40#??? Man, that's definitely overkill in my book, but good for you.

And I was joking about weighted DL's. :-) I don't think there would be a point for heavy/low rep lifting.

Moon,
I see you're a heart rate virgin. No, 154 isn't his resting rate. That's about the resting rate of a mouse. He was saying his max rate during the WOD was 177 and that his average heart rate over the duration of the workout was 154. His resting heart rate is probably closer to 54.

Derek,

Following up on Moon's questions, to me that seems a bit low. What's your usual max heart rate on a 5 or 10 K? I would interpret a 154 average as meaning you had to rest between sets because of muscle failure, rather than "metcon" your way through the exercises. How do you see it?

Does your HR monitor allow you to download a file and plot your workout (I can hear Keith puking right now)?

27:48-

Had a longer post, but the system ate it again. oh well. Pull ups were not full ROM as the shoulder issue continues. Does feel a little better than earlier in the week, but let's see what the lifting (apartment move) this week is like.

Do you use weights on the squat? or is it bodyweight only?

Bodyweight squats for Angie.